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The argument for veganism was never about not killing animals but about how much suffering factory-farmed animals go through to become meat on our plates. Becau

by lgvln 3y ago

The argument for veganism was never about not killing animals but about how much suffering factory-farmed animals go through to become meat on our plates. Because of the difficulties in sourcing ethically raised animal products, some choose to forgo all animal products.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
The argument for veganism began with not killing animals. Hindus, Jains, and Buddhists all worked on this for millennia. Percy Bysshe Shelly, likewise. https://www.britannica.com/topic/veganism https://www.britannica.com/topic/veganism Now you're trying to rewrite history to appeal to people in the PETA and Upton Sinclair traditions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle You can say what you want about your personal reasons, but don't pretend that all vegans have this narrow focus.
- lgvln 3y ago
  Fair enough. It might have begun with that in mind but the contemporary argument for veganism or vegetarianism is not about that. There is no need for such language. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Liberation_(book) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Liberation_(book) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_liberation_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_liberation_movement
  - defrost 3y ago
    > There is no need for such language. I'm not real bright, can you highlight and quote the exact phrase used above that you object to? (Was it "Shelly" perhaps?) > argument for veganism was never about not killing animals but about how much suffering factory-farmed animals go through So, to be clear here, you're absolutely A-OK with the traditional steppe herding practices of treating animals well and then, when needing to kill them for meat, hugging them and quickly cutting open the chest and directly stopping the heart? It's a well cared for life with as rapid and relatively painless death as can be wished for.
    - lgvln 3y ago
      > I'm not real bright Not resorting to ad hominem arguments is a good start > So, to be clear here, you're absolutely A-OK... It is not about what I think, it is about what are the contemporary arguments for veganism or vegetarianism. If you care about the suffering of factory-farmed (or not factory-farmed) animals, good for you. How far you want to take that is entirely up to you. Some people eat less meat, others avoid all animal products.
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    Yes, your links indicate that it's even more radical than you described at first. It's not about merely ending suffering due to overcrowded factory farms or inhumane slaughtering/lab testing. It's not merely about not-killing animals. It's far broader than that. In fact, veganism is only a means to an end for animal liberation activists. They desire that animals achieve equality, or should I say, have equity, compared to mankind. So I apologize for assuming that you were attempting to narrow the focus, but once again, you don't speak for all vegans, and Hindus, Jains and Buddhists all still exist.
    - lgvln 3y ago
      > Yes, your links indicate that it's even more radical than you described at first The basic idea is the suffering of animals, factory-farmed or not. If you can recognise that, good for you. How far you want to take that is entirely up to you. > you don't speak for all vegans I have never claimed to if you actually read what I wrote.
Georgelemental 3y ago
There are plenty of vegans who refuse to eat non-factory-farmed animal products too?

by lgvln 3y ago

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

The argument for veganism began with not killing animals. Hindus, Jains, and Buddhists all worked on this for millennia. Percy Bysshe Shelly, likewise. https://www.britannica.com/topic/veganism https://www.britannica.com/topic/veganism Now you're trying to rewrite history to appeal to people in the PETA and Upton Sinclair traditions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle You can say what you want about your personal reasons, but don't pretend that all vegans have this narrow focus.

lgvln 3y ago
Fair enough. It might have begun with that in mind but the contemporary argument for veganism or vegetarianism is not about that. There is no need for such language. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Liberation_(book) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Liberation_(book) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_liberation_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_liberation_movement
- defrost 3y ago
  > There is no need for such language. I'm not real bright, can you highlight and quote the exact phrase used above that you object to? (Was it "Shelly" perhaps?) > argument for veganism was never about not killing animals but about how much suffering factory-farmed animals go through So, to be clear here, you're absolutely A-OK with the traditional steppe herding practices of treating animals well and then, when needing to kill them for meat, hugging them and quickly cutting open the chest and directly stopping the heart? It's a well cared for life with as rapid and relatively painless death as can be wished for.
  - lgvln 3y ago
    > I'm not real bright Not resorting to ad hominem arguments is a good start > So, to be clear here, you're absolutely A-OK... It is not about what I think, it is about what are the contemporary arguments for veganism or vegetarianism. If you care about the suffering of factory-farmed (or not factory-farmed) animals, good for you. How far you want to take that is entirely up to you. Some people eat less meat, others avoid all animal products.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Yes, your links indicate that it's even more radical than you described at first. It's not about merely ending suffering due to overcrowded factory farms or inhumane slaughtering/lab testing. It's not merely about not-killing animals. It's far broader than that. In fact, veganism is only a means to an end for animal liberation activists. They desire that animals achieve equality, or should I say, have equity, compared to mankind. So I apologize for assuming that you were attempting to narrow the focus, but once again, you don't speak for all vegans, and Hindus, Jains and Buddhists all still exist.
  - lgvln 3y ago
    > Yes, your links indicate that it's even more radical than you described at first The basic idea is the suffering of animals, factory-farmed or not. If you can recognise that, good for you. How far you want to take that is entirely up to you. > you don't speak for all vegans I have never claimed to if you actually read what I wrote.

Georgelemental 3y ago

There are plenty of vegans who refuse to eat non-factory-farmed animal products too?