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Yeah, and what do you know, they were right. Tesla utterly squandered their first-mover advantage. I’ve talked to multiple Tesla owners (despite being a group I

Yeah, and what do you know, they were right. Tesla utterly squandered their first-mover advantage. I’ve talked to multiple Tesla owners (despite being a group I actively try to avoid) at charging stations and such, all lamenting the completely absurd quirks of their car’s UX, and the ridiculous mismatch between their advertised battery life and what they get in reality. I’ve got a non-Tesla EV and I think that it’s great. So do plenty of others. Given what I’ve experienced in Teslas, I am completely happy with GM’s characterisation. Everyone else will flatten Tesla because ultimately the premise that people want this much computer in their car is flawed for the vast vast vast majority of people.

clay_the_ripper 3y ago
I have a model Y lease that’s up in March. Can’t wait to get rid of the stupid thing. It’s amazingly fun to drive and very fast. Other than that, the car is a pile of garbage. The range is about half what’s rated, the charging speed is about half what’s advertised, the build quality is terrible, and the service is nonexistent. True story: the alignment on the poorly designed trunk is way off. Took it to the dealer, and the said they don’t fix teslas. Actually true. Directed me to find a third party body shop. Didn’t bother, will return it broken and I’m sure I will get absolutely hosed by them. They treat their customers exactly how Elon views humanity: expendable. Will never, ever buy any Tesla product. Ever.
catlover76 3y ago
> I’ve talked to multiple Tesla owners (despite being a group I actively try to avoid) This would be impossible in California; perfectly normal people who don't particularly like Elon Musk own Teslas here. > Everyone else will flatten Tesla because ultimately the premise that people want this much computer in their car is flawed for the vast vast vast majority of people. Unfortunately, all the other carmakers seem to be putting a bunch of software and spyware in their cars as well. :/ Seems pretty hard to get a decent, working, analog car these days.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  > Seems pretty hard to get a decent, working, analog car these days. Its not hard. Its basically impossible and illegal specially for a new car. New regulation require a huge amount of electrical safety equipment. And the are already regulation to push that up even more, any new car designed in the last couple years has even more.
londons_explore 3y ago
> completely absurd quirks of their car’s UX, Tesla could fix this by opening the car up to the modding community. Let people mod the screens to their hearts desire. And let people mod the official app too. Make a big warning that Tesla isn't responsible for any behaviour caused by mods, and make a simple 'safe mode' that disables all mods and takes it back to stock.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  You can slap 'non responsible' all over it, when a Tesla runs into a pedestrian (or rather another car as the US doesn't car about dead pedestrians) and the cause is found to be a moded screen, the internet won't care about 'non responsible' Tesla would absorb the usual shit storm. Even allowing an App-Store on a platform like that is very risky business and that's why Tesla hasn't done it. Musk has been thinking about an AppStore for 10+ years now, but the practical issue with it are just to great.
panick21_ 3y ago
This is such comment is just complete nonsense and reflects a total non understanding of the car market. Saying Tesla 'squandered the first mover-advantage' is just so far wrong that its mind boggling that somebody could actually think that. Tesla went from a company selling 1000 cars a year to a company that is approaching selling 2 million cars a year. They are large and continue to have growth and despite massive investment in infrastructure and factories they are more profitable then most car companies. So to go from not existing to one of the most profitable companies in the industry is 'squandering' the first-mover advantage? What the fuck. And their 'first mover-advantage' is actually tiny and barley relevant. Before they even any volumes of cars many other companies already had EV as well. For traditional OEMs taking an existing platform and converting them to electric wasn't hard. Before Tesla had its own battery factories (with Panasonic) nothing Tesla did wasn't something that could be replicated by other companies. Car industry is a heavy capital industry, this is not tech where a first mover advantage means you can capture the market. > I’ve talked to multiple Tesla owners (despite being a group I actively try to avoid) at charging stations and such, all lamenting the completely absurd quirks of their car’s UX, and the ridiculous mismatch between their advertised battery life and what they get in reality. Wow you had a view conversation. We should defiantly take that as evidence. Tesla has sold 5 million cars so far, and you have had how many conversations? Also, there are actual statistics on these things, consumer satisfaction, brand loyalty and so on. And guess what, Tesla is always on the top of those lists. So it seems that that the 'horrible' UI isn't actually as bad as you suggest or at least it doesn't stop people from buying more Teslas, recommending it to their friends and being satisfied with the experience. > Given what I’ve experienced in Teslas, I am completely happy with GM’s characterisation. Tesla is building better EV for cheaper at higher volume wiht higher profit margins then GM. Its true GM doesn't play with batteries, because their 'Ultium' battery has been a complete disaster of delay after delay leading to even Ford has overtaken them. Tesla has 60% of the American EV market, they have like 5%. But I guess its always makes people feel good that are crushing you. This is like BlackBarry calling Apple 'the toy company'. > this much computer in their car is flawed for the vast vast vast majority of people. Maybe don't conclude from your own experience. The reality is simply not moving in that direction. Even GM/Ford pickup trucks have been massively moving in the direction of more software. If you look at the China market as a leading indicator the amount compute and feature in the car is increasing. The most popular best reviewed EV are modern cars like Tesla or the Polestar. While traditional cars like VW ID.4 are having massive software problem and VW sales in China are doing badly because of that. There are also company who have embraced a traditional interior organization and they don't exactly run away with the market either. So really, what the evidence for this position? Having followed this market for many years now, I don't see it. Computer people on HN have been harping on this issue since literally 2014 and the Model S, and somehow Tesla is still around. And I personally wouldn't want it either (I don't even own a car anyway) but that just isn't a relevant data-point.

clay_the_ripper 3y ago

I have a model Y lease that’s up in March. Can’t wait to get rid of the stupid thing. It’s amazingly fun to drive and very fast. Other than that, the car is a pile of garbage. The range is about half what’s rated, the charging speed is about half what’s advertised, the build quality is terrible, and the service is nonexistent. True story: the alignment on the poorly designed trunk is way off. Took it to the dealer, and the said they don’t fix teslas. Actually true. Directed me to find a third party body shop. Didn’t bother, will return it broken and I’m sure I will get absolutely hosed by them. They treat their customers exactly how Elon views humanity: expendable. Will never, ever buy any Tesla product. Ever.

catlover76 3y ago

> I’ve talked to multiple Tesla owners (despite being a group I actively try to avoid) This would be impossible in California; perfectly normal people who don't particularly like Elon Musk own Teslas here. > Everyone else will flatten Tesla because ultimately the premise that people want this much computer in their car is flawed for the vast vast vast majority of people. Unfortunately, all the other carmakers seem to be putting a bunch of software and spyware in their cars as well. :/ Seems pretty hard to get a decent, working, analog car these days.

panick21_ 3y ago
> Seems pretty hard to get a decent, working, analog car these days. Its not hard. Its basically impossible and illegal specially for a new car. New regulation require a huge amount of electrical safety equipment. And the are already regulation to push that up even more, any new car designed in the last couple years has even more.

londons_explore 3y ago

> completely absurd quirks of their car’s UX, Tesla could fix this by opening the car up to the modding community. Let people mod the screens to their hearts desire. And let people mod the official app too. Make a big warning that Tesla isn't responsible for any behaviour caused by mods, and make a simple 'safe mode' that disables all mods and takes it back to stock.

panick21_ 3y ago
You can slap 'non responsible' all over it, when a Tesla runs into a pedestrian (or rather another car as the US doesn't car about dead pedestrians) and the cause is found to be a moded screen, the internet won't care about 'non responsible' Tesla would absorb the usual shit storm. Even allowing an App-Store on a platform like that is very risky business and that's why Tesla hasn't done it. Musk has been thinking about an AppStore for 10+ years now, but the practical issue with it are just to great.

panick21_ 3y ago

This is such comment is just complete nonsense and reflects a total non understanding of the car market. Saying Tesla 'squandered the first mover-advantage' is just so far wrong that its mind boggling that somebody could actually think that. Tesla went from a company selling 1000 cars a year to a company that is approaching selling 2 million cars a year. They are large and continue to have growth and despite massive investment in infrastructure and factories they are more profitable then most car companies. So to go from not existing to one of the most profitable companies in the industry is 'squandering' the first-mover advantage? What the fuck. And their 'first mover-advantage' is actually tiny and barley relevant. Before they even any volumes of cars many other companies already had EV as well. For traditional OEMs taking an existing platform and converting them to electric wasn't hard. Before Tesla had its own battery factories (with Panasonic) nothing Tesla did wasn't something that could be replicated by other companies. Car industry is a heavy capital industry, this is not tech where a first mover advantage means you can capture the market. > I’ve talked to multiple Tesla owners (despite being a group I actively try to avoid) at charging stations and such, all lamenting the completely absurd quirks of their car’s UX, and the ridiculous mismatch between their advertised battery life and what they get in reality. Wow you had a view conversation. We should defiantly take that as evidence. Tesla has sold 5 million cars so far, and you have had how many conversations? Also, there are actual statistics on these things, consumer satisfaction, brand loyalty and so on. And guess what, Tesla is always on the top of those lists. So it seems that that the 'horrible' UI isn't actually as bad as you suggest or at least it doesn't stop people from buying more Teslas, recommending it to their friends and being satisfied with the experience. > Given what I’ve experienced in Teslas, I am completely happy with GM’s characterisation. Tesla is building better EV for cheaper at higher volume wiht higher profit margins then GM. Its true GM doesn't play with batteries, because their 'Ultium' battery has been a complete disaster of delay after delay leading to even Ford has overtaken them. Tesla has 60% of the American EV market, they have like 5%. But I guess its always makes people feel good that are crushing you. This is like BlackBarry calling Apple 'the toy company'. > this much computer in their car is flawed for the vast vast vast majority of people. Maybe don't conclude from your own experience. The reality is simply not moving in that direction. Even GM/Ford pickup trucks have been massively moving in the direction of more software. If you look at the China market as a leading indicator the amount compute and feature in the car is increasing. The most popular best reviewed EV are modern cars like Tesla or the Polestar. While traditional cars like VW ID.4 are having massive software problem and VW sales in China are doing badly because of that. There are also company who have embraced a traditional interior organization and they don't exactly run away with the market either. So really, what the evidence for this position? Having followed this market for many years now, I don't see it. Computer people on HN have been harping on this issue since literally 2014 and the Model S, and somehow Tesla is still around. And I personally wouldn't want it either (I don't even own a car anyway) but that just isn't a relevant data-point.