5 ms·

And in many cases, that much power transports a single person and occasionally a few bags of groceries. edit: By point of comparison, a good cyclist produces a

And in many cases, that much power transports a single person and occasionally a few bags of groceries. edit: By point of comparison, a good cyclist produces about 100 watts, probably less if they're on a leisurely cruise. That's about 2% of the wattage of a car engine.

ska 3y ago
For more direct comparison, there are motorcycles on the market that can produce ~150kW , to transport about the same amount of stuff. Bicycles are really efficient (and those motorcycles are very fast)
xattt 3y ago
> And in many cases, that much power transports a single person and occasionally a few bags of groceries. Is there any comparable mode of transport that can accommodate all of this in poor weather (i.e. a snowstorm) without having to wear burdensome clothing? I realize 150 years ago people wouldn’t venture out in those conditions, but they also didn’t move more than 50 km from their birthplace over their lifetime.
- lapetitejort 3y ago
  Yes: a bus or light rail system can carry tens or hundreds of people at a time for a comparable amount of wattage per person. Build the system underground and inclement weather becomes even less of an issue.
  - throwanem 3y ago
    You're still going to want to bundle up for the parts where you're walking to or from the station. But it's not like that's difficult or burdensome to do, at least for anyone hale enough to walk a couple miles without trouble. I commuted to work daily via light rail for years; with a couple of well-thought-out layers, good gloves and shoes, scarf, and hat, you're good to go down to about 15°F in reasonably still weather, and by adding a parka and balaclava you can take that down to 0° and still be quite comfortable - and with a backpack or satchel, carry quite a lot besides. (If anything, you might find yourself too warm and sweating! Working your muscles puts out a surprising amount of heat, and modern textiles can do an amazing job of keeping it where it does the most good.) Frankly, this is a skill anyone should have who lives where it gets cold enough to be useful. You won't always get to know ahead of time when you might be out in the cold - after a car wreck, for example, and maybe without a running engine for a heater into the bargain - so it pays to dress for what you could end up needing, or at least have the parts of such an outfit close to hand against the chance you might.
  - throwaway39491 3y ago
    I live in a city that's often said to have the best public transit infrastructure in Europe and one of the best in the world. I still use my car to go shopping and to transport myself. Carrying bags of groceries from the shop to the station, and from the station to my house is a lot of work and I'm not going to do that in bad weather. And public transit is much slower than going by car. For example: My doctor (that I have to visit every 2 weeks) is 25 minutes away by car and 1.5h by public transit. Don't trust stories about how you can work or read in public transit. The vehicles are so full in peak times that you're happy you at least get to fit into the vehicle. And it's a thoroughly bad experience during summer, I am sensitive to smells and I just can't do it, the body odors are too much and I'd throw up immediately.
    - antihero 3y ago
      I live in a city with one of the oldest but largest transport systems in Europe and if you’re near a rail (under or over ground) stop, public transport is usually quicker. For journeys within the inner zone, cycling is usually the next quickest and often quicker than public transit even. However, once you get to the outskirts (or late at night) and have to depend on the bus network, driving or private hire becomes quicker again.
      - throwaway39491 3y ago
        I'm right next to rail, that's the 1.5h I was talking about. 3 changes on the way and the waiting time adds up.
        hansvm 3y ago
        Reminds me of a city I used to live in. Their bus system was actually really good on average, but the worst-case routes had two 30-minute layovers. Even in -40F drifting snow it was faster to walk across the city than take those trips, and you'd only really take the bus if you had a lot to carry or wanted to avoid the elements.
- adrianN 3y ago
  Where do you life that snowstorms are a daily concern? McMurdo station?
  - throwaway39491 3y ago
    I live in the middle of Europe. Snowstorms are a daily concern for 2 months of a year. Extreme heat is a daily concern for 2 months of a year, too. And rain is a daily concern for 2-3 months of a year.
    - adrianN 3y ago
      Nice so you can cycle without worry for about half the year.
      - throwaway39491 3y ago
        Not going to do that with groceries, and generally it takes too much time and effort (this city is built on a lot of hills) and is too dangerous around here. Nicer bikes get stolen a lot (I lost 3 before I lost my patience and didn't buy another one), cars are much harder to steal.
  - xattt 3y ago
    In my part of Canada, weekly or twice weekly snow events are a reality from late November to early April.
    - adrianN 3y ago
      Nice so you can cycle for half a year without worrying about snowstorms.
      - xattt 3y ago
        I don’t hibernate for the other half of the year. I continue to cycle when weather permits. I might have been able to carry enough groceries for myself in two panniers, but it’s not practical for enough food my family. A cargo bike might carry four or so grocery bins, but not the six to eight I now get on my biweekly shop.

ska 3y ago

For more direct comparison, there are motorcycles on the market that can produce ~150kW , to transport about the same amount of stuff. Bicycles are really efficient (and those motorcycles are very fast)

xattt 3y ago

> And in many cases, that much power transports a single person and occasionally a few bags of groceries. Is there any comparable mode of transport that can accommodate all of this in poor weather (i.e. a snowstorm) without having to wear burdensome clothing? I realize 150 years ago people wouldn’t venture out in those conditions, but they also didn’t move more than 50 km from their birthplace over their lifetime.

lapetitejort 3y ago
Yes: a bus or light rail system can carry tens or hundreds of people at a time for a comparable amount of wattage per person. Build the system underground and inclement weather becomes even less of an issue.
- throwanem 3y ago
  You're still going to want to bundle up for the parts where you're walking to or from the station. But it's not like that's difficult or burdensome to do, at least for anyone hale enough to walk a couple miles without trouble. I commuted to work daily via light rail for years; with a couple of well-thought-out layers, good gloves and shoes, scarf, and hat, you're good to go down to about 15°F in reasonably still weather, and by adding a parka and balaclava you can take that down to 0° and still be quite comfortable - and with a backpack or satchel, carry quite a lot besides. (If anything, you might find yourself too warm and sweating! Working your muscles puts out a surprising amount of heat, and modern textiles can do an amazing job of keeping it where it does the most good.) Frankly, this is a skill anyone should have who lives where it gets cold enough to be useful. You won't always get to know ahead of time when you might be out in the cold - after a car wreck, for example, and maybe without a running engine for a heater into the bargain - so it pays to dress for what you could end up needing, or at least have the parts of such an outfit close to hand against the chance you might.
- throwaway39491 3y ago
  I live in a city that's often said to have the best public transit infrastructure in Europe and one of the best in the world. I still use my car to go shopping and to transport myself. Carrying bags of groceries from the shop to the station, and from the station to my house is a lot of work and I'm not going to do that in bad weather. And public transit is much slower than going by car. For example: My doctor (that I have to visit every 2 weeks) is 25 minutes away by car and 1.5h by public transit. Don't trust stories about how you can work or read in public transit. The vehicles are so full in peak times that you're happy you at least get to fit into the vehicle. And it's a thoroughly bad experience during summer, I am sensitive to smells and I just can't do it, the body odors are too much and I'd throw up immediately.
  - antihero 3y ago
    I live in a city with one of the oldest but largest transport systems in Europe and if you’re near a rail (under or over ground) stop, public transport is usually quicker. For journeys within the inner zone, cycling is usually the next quickest and often quicker than public transit even. However, once you get to the outskirts (or late at night) and have to depend on the bus network, driving or private hire becomes quicker again.
    - throwaway39491 3y ago
      I'm right next to rail, that's the 1.5h I was talking about. 3 changes on the way and the waiting time adds up.
      - hansvm 3y ago
        Reminds me of a city I used to live in. Their bus system was actually really good on average, but the worst-case routes had two 30-minute layovers. Even in -40F drifting snow it was faster to walk across the city than take those trips, and you'd only really take the bus if you had a lot to carry or wanted to avoid the elements.
adrianN 3y ago
Where do you life that snowstorms are a daily concern? McMurdo station?
- throwaway39491 3y ago
  I live in the middle of Europe. Snowstorms are a daily concern for 2 months of a year. Extreme heat is a daily concern for 2 months of a year, too. And rain is a daily concern for 2-3 months of a year.
  - adrianN 3y ago
    Nice so you can cycle without worry for about half the year.
    - throwaway39491 3y ago
      Not going to do that with groceries, and generally it takes too much time and effort (this city is built on a lot of hills) and is too dangerous around here. Nicer bikes get stolen a lot (I lost 3 before I lost my patience and didn't buy another one), cars are much harder to steal.
- xattt 3y ago
  In my part of Canada, weekly or twice weekly snow events are a reality from late November to early April.
  - adrianN 3y ago
    Nice so you can cycle for half a year without worrying about snowstorms.
    - xattt 3y ago
      I don’t hibernate for the other half of the year. I continue to cycle when weather permits. I might have been able to carry enough groceries for myself in two panniers, but it’s not practical for enough food my family. A cargo bike might carry four or so grocery bins, but not the six to eight I now get on my biweekly shop.