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"The government also confirmed that under the revised plan all hybrid and plug-in hybrid cars would also be banned from 2035" I really do not agree with this.

by ars 3y ago

"The government also confirmed that under the revised plan all hybrid and plug-in hybrid cars would also be banned from 2035" I really do not agree with this. If I buy an electric car (and I want to) it's going to be a hybrid. Either that, or find me a car that can travel at least 600 miles on a single charge. I'm 100% unwilling to wait more than 20 minutes total to recharge on this 600 mile trip. So I need 600 miles with 20 minutes of charging. I do not believe this is currently possible, so I would want a hybrid.

LeoPanthera 3y ago
Good news. They're not banning hybrids.
- junofan 3y ago
  TFA says they’re banned in 2035 though.
  - tuatoru 3y ago
    So if sales of ICEVs and hybrids stops in '35, then the stock of cars on the road should switch to being >50% electric in the mid to late 2040s.
edent 3y ago
When was the last time you drove 600 miles in one stretch? In fact, when was the last time you drive 200 miles without taking a break? Guess what! You rock up to a motorway service station, plug in your CCS connector, have a slash, stretch your legs, maybe buy a shitty coffee or a meal deal, and in that time you've got another 200 miles in your battery. Honestly, if you're not taking regular breaks while driving, you're probably not driving safely.
- tokai 3y ago
  A bit harsh trying to shame him for not taking breaks, when ars wrote 600 miles in one charge. You are the one making it into a 600 mile drive without breaks.
  - edent 3y ago
    Why wouldn't you charge when you take a break? That's what I'm saying. You take a break, plug in, leave the car while you stretch your legs, done. The UK isn't the USA. 600 miles gets you most of the way from Land's End to John o'Groats. If you're regularly making that trip then, yes, I'll concede you need a massive battery. You probably also want to reconsider your life choices.
    - tuatoru 3y ago
      Because you are in a scenic rural area, enjoying the rural view of rural scenery without wires in it.
- whelp_24 3y ago
  I get that this is the UK, but 600 miles being something people don't drive is sorta hilarious to me as an American.
- ars 3y ago
  The thing with a 600 mile trip is any breaks are very costly. You stop around every 200 miles for a 5 to 10 minutes bathroom break and gas, and that's it. I eat in the car, I don't waste time getting food. (We split up so one person is fueling and the other going to the bathroom, then switch - but I do all the driving.) If you stop for any longer than that and you start exceeding the maximum you can drive in one day. > In fact, when was the last time you drive 200 miles without taking a break? I do that multiple times a year. I drive around 400 to 500 miles, stopping just once (so at 250 miles usually). 600 miles is more rare, but I do that occasionally as well (and I would stop twice in such a trip). I'm fine with topping up the electricity on such a stop, but ideally 5 minutes, 10 minutes max.
johanvts 3y ago
You are a very rare customer. Most people take a break after driving for a few hours. Might as well charge the car. A fast charge speed that lets you drive a few hours on 30mins of charging and you don’t really need more battery capacity than that. Which is pretty much what new EVs already offer. It’s more likely that the cars will start getting lighter as the battery tech improves, a 600mile battery capacity really wouldn’t make a lot of sense for most customers.
- ghusto 3y ago
  > You are a very rare customer. Not in my circles he's not. Most of the people I know say pretty much the same thing, myself included. I'd be willing to put up with the inconvenience of this "fast charge" that gets me a few hours for 30 minutes of charging, but that presumes every where I stop has it. Which they absolutely would not, especially given the nature of the trips that take me that far.
  - thebruce87m 3y ago
    I see lots of people making this argument. They would rather be able to complete rare long-range drives without stopping for 20 mins every 2 hours. Meanwhile during their normal use patterns they will be spending 5-10 mins a week at a petrol station paying 5x more for all their fuel when EVs charge cheaply at night. Seems like a false economy?
    - ghusto 3y ago
      Those rare long-range drives are not an exception you can ignore. Part of the reason I have a car in the first place is to have the freedom to go to random places. It's a bit like saying most of my work happens in the GUI, so I shouldn't expect to be able to use a terminal.
      - thebruce87m 3y ago
        Nobody is saying ignore them, and your analogy doesn’t really work since you can still do them. In fact, since you’re encouraged to take regular breaks on a long trip anyway the only edge cases not catered for is when you have multiple drivers and you MUST keep driving for some reason.
josephcsible 3y ago
Unless you go on 600 mile trips exceptionally often, e.g., every week or two, won't the extra time you spend charging on them be massively outweighed by the time you save by not going to gas stations the rest of the time?
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  Yes, and it’s 5x cheaper per mile to fuel an EV here too.
- ars 3y ago
  Not all time is equal. On a 600 mile long time breaks are extremely costly. The trip is already 9 hours long, which is close to the max you can safely drive in a day. So you want to stop around every 200 miles, for as short a time as you can, to avoid making the trip longer. On the other hard when I go to the gas station I don't have that time constraint.

by ars 3y ago

LeoPanthera 3y ago

Good news. They're not banning hybrids.

junofan 3y ago
TFA says they’re banned in 2035 though.
- tuatoru 3y ago
  So if sales of ICEVs and hybrids stops in '35, then the stock of cars on the road should switch to being >50% electric in the mid to late 2040s.

edent 3y ago

When was the last time you drove 600 miles in one stretch? In fact, when was the last time you drive 200 miles without taking a break? Guess what! You rock up to a motorway service station, plug in your CCS connector, have a slash, stretch your legs, maybe buy a shitty coffee or a meal deal, and in that time you've got another 200 miles in your battery. Honestly, if you're not taking regular breaks while driving, you're probably not driving safely.

tokai 3y ago
A bit harsh trying to shame him for not taking breaks, when ars wrote 600 miles in one charge. You are the one making it into a 600 mile drive without breaks.
- edent 3y ago
  Why wouldn't you charge when you take a break? That's what I'm saying. You take a break, plug in, leave the car while you stretch your legs, done. The UK isn't the USA. 600 miles gets you most of the way from Land's End to John o'Groats. If you're regularly making that trip then, yes, I'll concede you need a massive battery. You probably also want to reconsider your life choices.
  - tuatoru 3y ago
    Because you are in a scenic rural area, enjoying the rural view of rural scenery without wires in it.
whelp_24 3y ago
I get that this is the UK, but 600 miles being something people don't drive is sorta hilarious to me as an American.
ars 3y ago
The thing with a 600 mile trip is any breaks are very costly. You stop around every 200 miles for a 5 to 10 minutes bathroom break and gas, and that's it. I eat in the car, I don't waste time getting food. (We split up so one person is fueling and the other going to the bathroom, then switch - but I do all the driving.) If you stop for any longer than that and you start exceeding the maximum you can drive in one day. > In fact, when was the last time you drive 200 miles without taking a break? I do that multiple times a year. I drive around 400 to 500 miles, stopping just once (so at 250 miles usually). 600 miles is more rare, but I do that occasionally as well (and I would stop twice in such a trip). I'm fine with topping up the electricity on such a stop, but ideally 5 minutes, 10 minutes max.

johanvts 3y ago

You are a very rare customer. Most people take a break after driving for a few hours. Might as well charge the car. A fast charge speed that lets you drive a few hours on 30mins of charging and you don’t really need more battery capacity than that. Which is pretty much what new EVs already offer. It’s more likely that the cars will start getting lighter as the battery tech improves, a 600mile battery capacity really wouldn’t make a lot of sense for most customers.

ghusto 3y ago
> You are a very rare customer. Not in my circles he's not. Most of the people I know say pretty much the same thing, myself included. I'd be willing to put up with the inconvenience of this "fast charge" that gets me a few hours for 30 minutes of charging, but that presumes every where I stop has it. Which they absolutely would not, especially given the nature of the trips that take me that far.
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  I see lots of people making this argument. They would rather be able to complete rare long-range drives without stopping for 20 mins every 2 hours. Meanwhile during their normal use patterns they will be spending 5-10 mins a week at a petrol station paying 5x more for all their fuel when EVs charge cheaply at night. Seems like a false economy?
  - ghusto 3y ago
    Those rare long-range drives are not an exception you can ignore. Part of the reason I have a car in the first place is to have the freedom to go to random places. It's a bit like saying most of my work happens in the GUI, so I shouldn't expect to be able to use a terminal.
    - thebruce87m 3y ago
      Nobody is saying ignore them, and your analogy doesn’t really work since you can still do them. In fact, since you’re encouraged to take regular breaks on a long trip anyway the only edge cases not catered for is when you have multiple drivers and you MUST keep driving for some reason.

josephcsible 3y ago

Unless you go on 600 mile trips exceptionally often, e.g., every week or two, won't the extra time you spend charging on them be massively outweighed by the time you save by not going to gas stations the rest of the time?

thebruce87m 3y ago
Yes, and it’s 5x cheaper per mile to fuel an EV here too.
ars 3y ago
Not all time is equal. On a 600 mile long time breaks are extremely costly. The trip is already 9 hours long, which is close to the max you can safely drive in a day. So you want to stop around every 200 miles, for as short a time as you can, to avoid making the trip longer. On the other hard when I go to the gas station I don't have that time constraint.