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Man this article sure does seem to claim some specific ill intent or malice from Apple. I don't really know why there's so much focus on permitting scrapping o

Man this article sure does seem to claim some specific ill intent or malice from Apple. I don't really know why there's so much focus on permitting scrapping of parts that are deemed unsalvageable. From Apple's perspective there is no guarantee the parts are any good, or the cost of salvaging exceeds the benefit of just scrapping them for raw materials as is. Frankly, the prices that Apple seems to be charging for common repairs seems quite reasonable nowadays. I'm not sure what the profit motive is at the prices they list. The new 15 series batteries can be replaced by Apple for $99... Which seems like a bargain for a first party battery that you know is going to be done properly.

gameoverhumans 3y ago
99$ isn't really a "bargain" in the absolute sense. I encourage you to look at eBay buy it now listings for used/refurbished Lenovo ThinkCentre NUCs, for example. You can get an entire computer with 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD and a Skylake+ CPU for that kind of money.
- Kirby64 3y ago
  A Skylake CPU is an 8 year old CPU. Why are you even comparing old desktop-class CPUs to the cost of a battery replacement on a brand new device? I can buy an ancient server that consumes hundreds of watts for $100 too, it doesn't mean it's a good value. I can also buy an entire iPhone SE 2020 or something, for $100 as well.
  - gameoverhumans 3y ago
    What does age have to do with the value proposition I put forward? Has the battery chemistry in a iPhone 15 advanced significantly in the last 8 years? I don't think so. > I can also buy an entire iPhone SE 2020 or something, for $100 as well. Exactly, thanks for reinforcing my point.
    - Kirby64 3y ago
      I honestly don't know what you're even saying. The value proposition of an 8 year old piece of hardware that doesn't even have a battery in it is essentially unrelated to the cost or value of replacing a battery in a brand new phone. Likewise, the used cost of a device that is functional today (iPhone SE 2020 in my example) is almost unrelated to the cost of the battery replacement. I think you'd find that attempting to repair the NUC you highlighted would soon exceed the $100 if you needed to do anything more than very basic repairs.
      - gameoverhumans 3y ago
        I was trying to put your original "100$ isn't unreasonable" into context. I think making a comparison between a roll of graphite dipped in some lithium salt and an entire computer made up of billions of transistors is a reasonable one. You didn't address my parent question either. Because you either don't know (that's fine), or don't want to address the fact that there's very little that has changed in smartphone battery (or any lithium-ion battery, for that matter) composition or manufacture in a long while. > I think you'd find that attempting to repair the NUC you highlighted would soon exceed the $100 if you needed to do anything more than very basic repairs. Well I thought you didn't see the point of this comparison, so I don't know why you want to open that can of worms ;) But okay! A replacement 1TB nvme SSD costs 40 bucks (that's a new, in retail box, btw). A used stick of 16GB RAM costs 30 bucks. A used i5-6500T is 30 bucks. Since you don't like comparing apple to ora--- er, batteries to computers, how about this? An iPhone 13 Max battery harvested from a broken-screen unit can be had for 30EUR on eBay. Except Apple doesn't want you to have that option. It wants to be the only game in town, and have folks like you justifying its monopolistic and unsustainable behavior.
        Kirby64 3y ago
        And what exactly is stopping you from using said harvested battery? It works. You plug it in, and it's fine. Literally the only thing you miss is the battery life indicator (which, seems reasonable, since a harvested device may have had its battery life reset or something) and the pop-up that says this battery may not be an original component if you check the Settings menu. That's it. What's the issue here?
fragmede 3y ago
> the prices that Apple seems to be charging for common repairs seems quite reasonable nowadays. That is besides the point. If Apple is the only one allowed to do repairs, they can set whatever price they want. That they've deigned to make it $99 is a price not determined by the market.
- Kirby64 3y ago
  I didn't realize that Apple forbade anyone from doing repairs? If I want to replace the battery in my iPhone, there are a multitude of 3rd party vendors I can buy from. It'll tell me it can't verify the battery is authentic... but you can still use the battery. Same with screen, camera, etc. If Apple wanted to actually forbid repairs, they wouldn't let you turn on the device if the battery wasn't authenticated, or the display wasn't authenticated, etc.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    The point is that we shouldn't have to live under Apple's good graces and just hope they remain benevolent.
    - Kirby64 3y ago
      What is there to "live under"? You can already buy 3rd party parts, nobody is stopping this. If Apple started bricking devices if they didn't have authentic parts in them... yeah, sure, I can see you point. But they don't, and you're free to repair devices yourself or take them to a repair shop who does this for you. Frankly I don't see how this is particularly different from Samsung or any other android manufacturer, besides maybe aftermarket parts won't warn you that they're possibly not authentic.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> Frankly, the prices that Apple seems to be charging for common repairs seems quite reasonable nowadays MacBook Air. Damaged charging chip. Laptop runs fine on AC. Battery is at 100% health. It just can't be charged (this is the summary from Apple after diagnostics). Fine, I think. Maybe what, $2-300 with parts and labor? "That will be $890 if you want to repair it. Maybe we can talk about getting you into a new Mac instead?" $890. To repair a $1,100 laptop that is functioning perfectly other than being able to direct energy into a battery.
- wtallis 3y ago
  No other laptop manufacturer is going to offer you a repair that involves soldering, either. Everyone is just going to offer to replace the motherboard for a failure like that, and that motherboard contains all the most expensive components aside from the display. Nobody wants to lose money on the repairs, which is why soldering is right out and why a replacement motherboard is going to be over half the price of the machine before labor is thrown in. Your expectations were unrealistic.
  - sudosysgen 3y ago
    I've gotten multiple laptops repaired by independent repair shops which did in fact desolder, change, and solder a part. It's not actually as difficult as you think. The chip itself is likely just a few bucks, and it takes about an hour to make such a repair, so plenty of shops are happy charging a couple hundred dollars to do this.
    - wtallis 3y ago
      Yes, some independent repair shops can do this. It doesn't scale. People who can diagnose such problems and solder well enough to make such repairs quickly and reliably are rare, and can usually make more money putting those skills to use elsewhere. There's no way every Apple store genius bar could have such a technician on staff.
      - 3y ago

gameoverhumans 3y ago

99$ isn't really a "bargain" in the absolute sense. I encourage you to look at eBay buy it now listings for used/refurbished Lenovo ThinkCentre NUCs, for example. You can get an entire computer with 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD and a Skylake+ CPU for that kind of money.

Kirby64 3y ago
A Skylake CPU is an 8 year old CPU. Why are you even comparing old desktop-class CPUs to the cost of a battery replacement on a brand new device? I can buy an ancient server that consumes hundreds of watts for $100 too, it doesn't mean it's a good value. I can also buy an entire iPhone SE 2020 or something, for $100 as well.
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  What does age have to do with the value proposition I put forward? Has the battery chemistry in a iPhone 15 advanced significantly in the last 8 years? I don't think so. > I can also buy an entire iPhone SE 2020 or something, for $100 as well. Exactly, thanks for reinforcing my point.
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    I honestly don't know what you're even saying. The value proposition of an 8 year old piece of hardware that doesn't even have a battery in it is essentially unrelated to the cost or value of replacing a battery in a brand new phone. Likewise, the used cost of a device that is functional today (iPhone SE 2020 in my example) is almost unrelated to the cost of the battery replacement. I think you'd find that attempting to repair the NUC you highlighted would soon exceed the $100 if you needed to do anything more than very basic repairs.
    - gameoverhumans 3y ago
      I was trying to put your original "100$ isn't unreasonable" into context. I think making a comparison between a roll of graphite dipped in some lithium salt and an entire computer made up of billions of transistors is a reasonable one. You didn't address my parent question either. Because you either don't know (that's fine), or don't want to address the fact that there's very little that has changed in smartphone battery (or any lithium-ion battery, for that matter) composition or manufacture in a long while. > I think you'd find that attempting to repair the NUC you highlighted would soon exceed the $100 if you needed to do anything more than very basic repairs. Well I thought you didn't see the point of this comparison, so I don't know why you want to open that can of worms ;) But okay! A replacement 1TB nvme SSD costs 40 bucks (that's a new, in retail box, btw). A used stick of 16GB RAM costs 30 bucks. A used i5-6500T is 30 bucks. Since you don't like comparing apple to ora--- er, batteries to computers, how about this? An iPhone 13 Max battery harvested from a broken-screen unit can be had for 30EUR on eBay. Except Apple doesn't want you to have that option. It wants to be the only game in town, and have folks like you justifying its monopolistic and unsustainable behavior.
      - Kirby64 3y ago
        And what exactly is stopping you from using said harvested battery? It works. You plug it in, and it's fine. Literally the only thing you miss is the battery life indicator (which, seems reasonable, since a harvested device may have had its battery life reset or something) and the pop-up that says this battery may not be an original component if you check the Settings menu. That's it. What's the issue here?

fragmede 3y ago

> the prices that Apple seems to be charging for common repairs seems quite reasonable nowadays. That is besides the point. If Apple is the only one allowed to do repairs, they can set whatever price they want. That they've deigned to make it $99 is a price not determined by the market.

Kirby64 3y ago
I didn't realize that Apple forbade anyone from doing repairs? If I want to replace the battery in my iPhone, there are a multitude of 3rd party vendors I can buy from. It'll tell me it can't verify the battery is authentic... but you can still use the battery. Same with screen, camera, etc. If Apple wanted to actually forbid repairs, they wouldn't let you turn on the device if the battery wasn't authenticated, or the display wasn't authenticated, etc.
- fragmede 3y ago
  The point is that we shouldn't have to live under Apple's good graces and just hope they remain benevolent.
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    What is there to "live under"? You can already buy 3rd party parts, nobody is stopping this. If Apple started bricking devices if they didn't have authentic parts in them... yeah, sure, I can see you point. But they don't, and you're free to repair devices yourself or take them to a repair shop who does this for you. Frankly I don't see how this is particularly different from Samsung or any other android manufacturer, besides maybe aftermarket parts won't warn you that they're possibly not authentic.

FireBeyond 3y ago

> Frankly, the prices that Apple seems to be charging for common repairs seems quite reasonable nowadays MacBook Air. Damaged charging chip. Laptop runs fine on AC. Battery is at 100% health. It just can't be charged (this is the summary from Apple after diagnostics). Fine, I think. Maybe what, $2-300 with parts and labor? "That will be $890 if you want to repair it. Maybe we can talk about getting you into a new Mac instead?" $890. To repair a $1,100 laptop that is functioning perfectly other than being able to direct energy into a battery.

wtallis 3y ago
No other laptop manufacturer is going to offer you a repair that involves soldering, either. Everyone is just going to offer to replace the motherboard for a failure like that, and that motherboard contains all the most expensive components aside from the display. Nobody wants to lose money on the repairs, which is why soldering is right out and why a replacement motherboard is going to be over half the price of the machine before labor is thrown in. Your expectations were unrealistic.
- sudosysgen 3y ago
  I've gotten multiple laptops repaired by independent repair shops which did in fact desolder, change, and solder a part. It's not actually as difficult as you think. The chip itself is likely just a few bucks, and it takes about an hour to make such a repair, so plenty of shops are happy charging a couple hundred dollars to do this.
  - wtallis 3y ago
    Yes, some independent repair shops can do this. It doesn't scale. People who can diagnose such problems and solder well enough to make such repairs quickly and reliably are rare, and can usually make more money putting those skills to use elsewhere. There's no way every Apple store genius bar could have such a technician on staff.
    - 3y ago