9 ms·

I don't have a Steam Deck, and I've never used SteamOS. But it's been incredible over the last few years how much better the support for games (both old and new

by entuno 3y ago

I don't have a Steam Deck, and I've never used SteamOS. But it's been incredible over the last few years how much better the support for games (both old and new ) on Linux has become, to the point where it seems more likely than not that a game will be playable. It's been great to see that Valve have been pushing so many of their improvements upstream rather than trying to keep them to themselves - long may it continue.

bil7 3y ago
I can't believe the current state of things is so good, that I'd default to using the Proton version of a game over the linux native port.
- yyyk 3y ago
  It's more how bad the state of things is regarding Linux binary compatibility...
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    I'd ask how we fix this as someone planning to make a linux port of their game. But a place full of consumers in a Valve thread may not be the best place for productive answers. Like, I've used Linux through college and dual-booted for a good decade, so I'm familiar with how Linux works as a daily driver. But what makes it so hard to distribute a Linux version? Even for devs who do think the same they seem to struggle with that compatibility.
    - ric2b 3y ago
      There is the extra complexity of differences between distros and such, but it seems like the biggest reason is simply that companies don't dedicate the same resources to a Linux version that they do to Windows, due to it being a much smaller market.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Alright, thanks. I just want to make sure I'm not walking into some weird pitfall where suddenly some very niche Linux distro has some core graphical issue to address. I know I can't optimize for every flavor of Linux under the sun.
        ajvs 3y ago
        Just optimise for the Steam Linux Runtime, it's cross-distro compatible.
mabbo 3y ago
I saw a cool looking indie game the other day on steam and excitedly bought it. Then realized it doesn't support Linux. I can't install it. I was shocked. And then I realized how crazy it is that I had presumed a game would run on Linux. How far we've come.
- sickofparadox 3y ago
  If you go into properties, you might be able to install it by choosing a specific version of proton (I think the option is properties> compatibility).
- sentimentscan 3y ago
  even with proton?
- temp0826 3y ago
  I think there's a switch to flip in Steam's settings that allows you to use any game with Proton even if untested/unsupported. (Something to that effect, can't look now)
  - mabbo 3y ago
    No no don't tell me this. I had things I wanted to get done this weekend!
    - murrain 3y ago
      You can also check compatibility on protondb (https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/)
    - LooseMarmoset 3y ago
      If you go into a game's properties in Steam (the little gear icon), and and then choose "Compatibility" from the resulting window, you can choose a version of Proton to run the game, usually the latest stable is good, sometimes you have to play around to find a good version. Once you've chosen a Proton version, the option to "Install" will be available in your game menu. I gave up on Windows a couple years ago, and most Steam games run in Linux using Proton through Steam. Some modern titles with fancy DRM don't work, but I generally don't buy those anyway (Denuvo, certain anticheats, etc).
coldpie 3y ago
> It's been great to see that Valve have been pushing so many of their improvements upstream rather than trying to keep them to themselves - long may it continue. Yes, the Linux team at Valve really understands how open source incentives align with their own. Since they & their contractors upstream almost everything they do, they don't have to maintain a diff, or even build most of the software they ship (they just use Arch packages for most stuff, as mentioned in the article). Unlike many proprietary companies who try to keep as much as possible in-house, Valve understands you get higher quality software with a lot less work overall when you work with and are friendly to upstream projects, even if it means a bit more work and negotiation up front. I was the creator & lead dev on Proton for its first 5 years (2016-2021), and from day 1 Valve understood that most of the work we did for them would be going upstream[1]. It wasn't even a conversation point in the early meetings. They've taken the same approach with every other OSS project they've worked with, and it shows in the great results & community relations. Valve is a great open source citizen. [1] E.g. https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/aeikum/2019/3/27/how-proton-helped-improve-wine-42 https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/aeikum/2019/3/27/how-proton...
- solardev 3y ago
  Do you think Mac gamers would ever see similar love, like Game Porting Toolkit integrated into Steam?
  - coldpie 3y ago
    I don't know anything about Valve's future plans, and I don't know anything at all about that toolkit (it was announced after I stopped working on Wine). My gut feeling is it's unlikely. There was a lot of incentive to target Linux with this tech, even though it's a smaller market than macOS, because you can control the whole stack and do cool stuff like SteamOS, which is what allowed the Deck to happen. On macOS, all you can do is sell stuff to end-users, where you also have to compete with the Apple store, which is owned by Apple, who also make the OS. Apple has also shown they're a bad partner for game companies (nuking 32-bit support; crummy OpenGL support; no Vulkan support; shaky record on OS updates breaking stuff). My experience is there's generally a lot of bad feelings and skepticism about Apple and macOS in the gaming industry due to that record.
dcdc123 3y ago
I have been a gamer my entire life and about three years ago I became a full-time digital nomad. I preordered the Steam Deck the moment the window opened and received mine in the first couple of batches. It has been absolutely phenomenal. It is not perfect and not everything runs great, but _almost_ everything I want it to run works and _almost_ everything I play on it runs pretty well. I have even been playing BG3 on it. When i do finally settle back down and build a new gaming rig it will run Linux.
godshatter 3y ago
I'd also like to give a shoutout to protondb.com. The combination of proton taking us 90+% of the way for most games out there plus the reports on protondb.com that show the tweaks that allow you to make it the rest of the way is huge.
treis 3y ago
It's interesting to see people stay this. I tried switching over to Linux full time and Rocket League plays but stutters badly. It's about the only game I play these days so not sure if I'm unlucky or if it's a continuation of the "Year of Linux Desktop" stuff I've been hearing for like 10 years.

by entuno 3y ago

bil7 3y ago

I can't believe the current state of things is so good, that I'd default to using the Proton version of a game over the linux native port.

yyyk 3y ago
It's more how bad the state of things is regarding Linux binary compatibility...
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  I'd ask how we fix this as someone planning to make a linux port of their game. But a place full of consumers in a Valve thread may not be the best place for productive answers. Like, I've used Linux through college and dual-booted for a good decade, so I'm familiar with how Linux works as a daily driver. But what makes it so hard to distribute a Linux version? Even for devs who do think the same they seem to struggle with that compatibility.
  - ric2b 3y ago
    There is the extra complexity of differences between distros and such, but it seems like the biggest reason is simply that companies don't dedicate the same resources to a Linux version that they do to Windows, due to it being a much smaller market.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      Alright, thanks. I just want to make sure I'm not walking into some weird pitfall where suddenly some very niche Linux distro has some core graphical issue to address. I know I can't optimize for every flavor of Linux under the sun.
      - ajvs 3y ago
        Just optimise for the Steam Linux Runtime, it's cross-distro compatible.

mabbo 3y ago

I saw a cool looking indie game the other day on steam and excitedly bought it. Then realized it doesn't support Linux. I can't install it. I was shocked. And then I realized how crazy it is that I had presumed a game would run on Linux. How far we've come.

sickofparadox 3y ago
If you go into properties, you might be able to install it by choosing a specific version of proton (I think the option is properties> compatibility).
sentimentscan 3y ago
even with proton?
temp0826 3y ago
I think there's a switch to flip in Steam's settings that allows you to use any game with Proton even if untested/unsupported. (Something to that effect, can't look now)
- mabbo 3y ago
  No no don't tell me this. I had things I wanted to get done this weekend!
  - murrain 3y ago
    You can also check compatibility on protondb (https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/)
  - LooseMarmoset 3y ago
    If you go into a game's properties in Steam (the little gear icon), and and then choose "Compatibility" from the resulting window, you can choose a version of Proton to run the game, usually the latest stable is good, sometimes you have to play around to find a good version. Once you've chosen a Proton version, the option to "Install" will be available in your game menu. I gave up on Windows a couple years ago, and most Steam games run in Linux using Proton through Steam. Some modern titles with fancy DRM don't work, but I generally don't buy those anyway (Denuvo, certain anticheats, etc).

coldpie 3y ago

> It's been great to see that Valve have been pushing so many of their improvements upstream rather than trying to keep them to themselves - long may it continue. Yes, the Linux team at Valve really understands how open source incentives align with their own. Since they & their contractors upstream almost everything they do, they don't have to maintain a diff, or even build most of the software they ship (they just use Arch packages for most stuff, as mentioned in the article). Unlike many proprietary companies who try to keep as much as possible in-house, Valve understands you get higher quality software with a lot less work overall when you work with and are friendly to upstream projects, even if it means a bit more work and negotiation up front. I was the creator & lead dev on Proton for its first 5 years (2016-2021), and from day 1 Valve understood that most of the work we did for them would be going upstream[1]. It wasn't even a conversation point in the early meetings. They've taken the same approach with every other OSS project they've worked with, and it shows in the great results & community relations. Valve is a great open source citizen. [1] E.g. https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/aeikum/2019/3/27/how-proton-helped-improve-wine-42 https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/aeikum/2019/3/27/how-proton...

solardev 3y ago
Do you think Mac gamers would ever see similar love, like Game Porting Toolkit integrated into Steam?
- coldpie 3y ago
  I don't know anything about Valve's future plans, and I don't know anything at all about that toolkit (it was announced after I stopped working on Wine). My gut feeling is it's unlikely. There was a lot of incentive to target Linux with this tech, even though it's a smaller market than macOS, because you can control the whole stack and do cool stuff like SteamOS, which is what allowed the Deck to happen. On macOS, all you can do is sell stuff to end-users, where you also have to compete with the Apple store, which is owned by Apple, who also make the OS. Apple has also shown they're a bad partner for game companies (nuking 32-bit support; crummy OpenGL support; no Vulkan support; shaky record on OS updates breaking stuff). My experience is there's generally a lot of bad feelings and skepticism about Apple and macOS in the gaming industry due to that record.

dcdc123 3y ago

I have been a gamer my entire life and about three years ago I became a full-time digital nomad. I preordered the Steam Deck the moment the window opened and received mine in the first couple of batches. It has been absolutely phenomenal. It is not perfect and not everything runs great, but _almost_ everything I want it to run works and _almost_ everything I play on it runs pretty well. I have even been playing BG3 on it. When i do finally settle back down and build a new gaming rig it will run Linux.

godshatter 3y ago

I'd also like to give a shoutout to protondb.com. The combination of proton taking us 90+% of the way for most games out there plus the reports on protondb.com that show the tweaks that allow you to make it the rest of the way is huge.

treis 3y ago

It's interesting to see people stay this. I tried switching over to Linux full time and Rocket League plays but stutters badly. It's about the only game I play these days so not sure if I'm unlucky or if it's a continuation of the "Year of Linux Desktop" stuff I've been hearing for like 10 years.