5 ms·

Of course they do. Toyota inserts itself between me and my need to go places.

pixl97 3y ago
In this case transportation grift is a trillion dollar problem in the US, but maybe slightly different than you're saying. A huge portion of US infrastructure is built on the idea that no one in their right mind would walk to it. Our shops are box islands in multi acre oceans of black asphalt. Vast arteries of concrete separate people from where they live to where they buy. So, yea I would say there is plenty of grift at different levels.
- nerdponx 3y ago
  I think we have a different interpretation of "between". I just meant that they see a costly thing that people do, and they do something to reduce that cost. That basically is what all companies do. I believe that's what GP meant as well, but apparently everyone else interpreted it differently.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > A huge portion of US infrastructure is built on the idea that no one in their right mind would walk to it. No one in their right mind would want to walk to any business in the US due to its urban planning and transport infrastructure. Even biking is an absurd risk that only rare people dare to make. In the US it's not abnormal to express the length of even mundane car trips in how many hours you spend driving. That's definitely not a halmark of a walkable region.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > No one in their right mind would want to walk to any business in the US due to its urban planning and transport infrastructure. > Even biking is an absurd risk that only rare people dare to make. Neither of these things are true everywhere in the US. There are many cities where walking and biking are common forms of transportation. But there are certainly many places where the infrastructure appears to be actively designed to kill pedestrians and bicyclist as well.
ta8645 3y ago
People went places before cars were invented, you can too. Toyota offers you a better way, if you can afford to avail yourself of their offer -- that's all.
- drekk 3y ago
  People went places before cars were invented, and then General Motors put itself between people and the desire to move around by buying up public transit only to dismantle it. Now car companies are offering not "a better way" but "the only real way" unless you want to get hit by a suburbanite driving a Ford F-150 while sitting in an unprotected bike lane. I'm really tired of people acting like it's just a free market where everyone is an equal, rational actor. There was a concerted effort to redesign Americana around cars that was not replicated globally, and you see the consequences of it play out in real time.
  - ta8645 3y ago
    > I'm really tired of people acting like it's just a free market where everyone is an equal, rational actor. It's never been a free market. There was no golden age where everybody had access to public transit. There were zero public services at all, you were on your own. And often had to contend with bandits and worse. I'm really tired of people acting like the only thing standing in the way of utopia, is capitalism.
    - astrange 3y ago
      > There was no golden age where everybody had access to public transit. There were zero public services at all, you were on your own. And often had to contend with bandits and worse. I think you're thinking of Skyrim and not the actual world, but there are certainly historical periods that were famously bandit-free even in antiquity like the Mongol Empire.
  - gumby 3y ago
    > General Motors put itself between people and the desire to move around by buying up public transit only to dismantle it I know this story and for a long time believed it. But it appears that developers building new towns (urban expansion) in the mid 20th century put in streetcars to get people to move in (connected to city networks etc) and ran them at a loss. As the new town filled up and the developers went on to the next one, the streetcars became the uneconomic responsibility of the town.

In this case transportation grift is a trillion dollar problem in the US, but maybe slightly different than you're saying. A huge portion of US infrastructure is built on the idea that no one in their right mind would walk to it. Our shops are box islands in multi acre oceans of black asphalt. Vast arteries of concrete separate people from where they live to where they buy. So, yea I would say there is plenty of grift at different levels.

nerdponx 3y ago
I think we have a different interpretation of "between". I just meant that they see a costly thing that people do, and they do something to reduce that cost. That basically is what all companies do. I believe that's what GP meant as well, but apparently everyone else interpreted it differently.
rewmie 3y ago
> A huge portion of US infrastructure is built on the idea that no one in their right mind would walk to it. No one in their right mind would want to walk to any business in the US due to its urban planning and transport infrastructure. Even biking is an absurd risk that only rare people dare to make. In the US it's not abnormal to express the length of even mundane car trips in how many hours you spend driving. That's definitely not a halmark of a walkable region.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > No one in their right mind would want to walk to any business in the US due to its urban planning and transport infrastructure. > Even biking is an absurd risk that only rare people dare to make. Neither of these things are true everywhere in the US. There are many cities where walking and biking are common forms of transportation. But there are certainly many places where the infrastructure appears to be actively designed to kill pedestrians and bicyclist as well.

ta8645 3y ago

People went places before cars were invented, you can too. Toyota offers you a better way, if you can afford to avail yourself of their offer -- that's all.

drekk 3y ago
People went places before cars were invented, and then General Motors put itself between people and the desire to move around by buying up public transit only to dismantle it. Now car companies are offering not "a better way" but "the only real way" unless you want to get hit by a suburbanite driving a Ford F-150 while sitting in an unprotected bike lane. I'm really tired of people acting like it's just a free market where everyone is an equal, rational actor. There was a concerted effort to redesign Americana around cars that was not replicated globally, and you see the consequences of it play out in real time.
- ta8645 3y ago
  > I'm really tired of people acting like it's just a free market where everyone is an equal, rational actor. It's never been a free market. There was no golden age where everybody had access to public transit. There were zero public services at all, you were on your own. And often had to contend with bandits and worse. I'm really tired of people acting like the only thing standing in the way of utopia, is capitalism.
  - astrange 3y ago
    > There was no golden age where everybody had access to public transit. There were zero public services at all, you were on your own. And often had to contend with bandits and worse. I think you're thinking of Skyrim and not the actual world, but there are certainly historical periods that were famously bandit-free even in antiquity like the Mongol Empire.
- gumby 3y ago
  > General Motors put itself between people and the desire to move around by buying up public transit only to dismantle it I know this story and for a long time believed it. But it appears that developers building new towns (urban expansion) in the mid 20th century put in streetcars to get people to move in (connected to city networks etc) and ran them at a loss. As the new town filled up and the developers went on to the next one, the streetcars became the uneconomic responsibility of the town.