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Neuralink is basically doing ground breaking micro electrodes implantation through robotics assisted open brain surgery. Sometimes the implants cause complicati

Neuralink is basically doing ground breaking micro electrodes implantation through robotics assisted open brain surgery. Sometimes the implants cause complications. If you are familiar with how brain surgery works, nothing about what happened to the monkeys is considered remotely gruesome. This stuff has been going on in research labs and hospitals for decades. Lay people just don't get to hear about them often.

oliwarner 3y ago
> If you are familiar with how brain surgery works... I'm not unfamiliar and I'm not sure what you think a layperson wouldn't understand about an unnecessary, unconsented, experimental medical procedure. Or is it okay because it's a monkey?
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  Hard to get consent from non-human animals. Some people think that means we shouldn’t experiment on animals at all. Some people think that the potential gains in relieving human suffering make it worthwhile. Most people on both camps think we shouldn’t allow the animals to suffer more than is necessary.
  - catchnear4321 3y ago
    “necessary” > Animal 15 began to lose coordination, and staff observed that she would shake uncontrollably when she saw lab workers.
    - Etherlord87 3y ago
      It's not clear what you're trying to communicate here. Yes, it draws a scary picture about the suffering of the "Animal 15". However it doesn't mean it wasn't "necessary".
      - catchnear4321 3y ago
        please provide the definition that is being used, and preferably how one gets to participate in deciding.
        Etherlord87 3y ago
        Why do you put the burden of proof on me? You countered a usage of a word with a quote and no explanation. I took a wild guess on what you could possibly mean, and argue how that would be a non sequitur. If you make an actual argument I might agree, but it's not clear what your argument even is.
        catchnear4321 3y ago
        > It doesn’t mean it wasn’t “necessary.” your guess seems anything but wild.
        Etherlord87 3y ago
        You are forcing me to guess. Even after I wrote it's not clear what you tried to communicate, you didn't care to elaborate, instead you're trying to force me to provide definitions. That's a ridiculous way to argue.
        catchnear4321 3y ago
        the point was the word. the interpretation is the conversation. the argument is your construction. end it whenever you wish.
      - YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
        "Necessary" for what purpose? From the article: >> Musk’s promise was to revolutionize prostheses and engineer an implant that would allow human brains to communicate wirelessly with artificial devices, and even each other. And from wikipedia: >> In April 2017, Neuralink announced that it was aiming to make devices to treat serious brain diseases in the short-term, with the eventual goal of human enhancement, sometimes called transhumanism.[16][7][17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink It seems that while there might be medical applications of the developed technology it is not primarily developed for medical purposes. Plugging your brain to your iPhone doesn't sound like a great justification for animal experimentation.

oliwarner 3y ago

> If you are familiar with how brain surgery works... I'm not unfamiliar and I'm not sure what you think a layperson wouldn't understand about an unnecessary, unconsented, experimental medical procedure. Or is it okay because it's a monkey?

amanaplanacanal 3y ago
Hard to get consent from non-human animals. Some people think that means we shouldn’t experiment on animals at all. Some people think that the potential gains in relieving human suffering make it worthwhile. Most people on both camps think we shouldn’t allow the animals to suffer more than is necessary.
- catchnear4321 3y ago
  “necessary” > Animal 15 began to lose coordination, and staff observed that she would shake uncontrollably when she saw lab workers.
  - Etherlord87 3y ago
    It's not clear what you're trying to communicate here. Yes, it draws a scary picture about the suffering of the "Animal 15". However it doesn't mean it wasn't "necessary".
    - catchnear4321 3y ago
      please provide the definition that is being used, and preferably how one gets to participate in deciding.
      - Etherlord87 3y ago
        Why do you put the burden of proof on me? You countered a usage of a word with a quote and no explanation. I took a wild guess on what you could possibly mean, and argue how that would be a non sequitur. If you make an actual argument I might agree, but it's not clear what your argument even is.
        catchnear4321 3y ago
        > It doesn’t mean it wasn’t “necessary.” your guess seems anything but wild.
        Etherlord87 3y ago
        You are forcing me to guess. Even after I wrote it's not clear what you tried to communicate, you didn't care to elaborate, instead you're trying to force me to provide definitions. That's a ridiculous way to argue.
        catchnear4321 3y ago
        the point was the word. the interpretation is the conversation. the argument is your construction. end it whenever you wish.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
      "Necessary" for what purpose? From the article: >> Musk’s promise was to revolutionize prostheses and engineer an implant that would allow human brains to communicate wirelessly with artificial devices, and even each other. And from wikipedia: >> In April 2017, Neuralink announced that it was aiming to make devices to treat serious brain diseases in the short-term, with the eventual goal of human enhancement, sometimes called transhumanism.[16][7][17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink It seems that while there might be medical applications of the developed technology it is not primarily developed for medical purposes. Plugging your brain to your iPhone doesn't sound like a great justification for animal experimentation.