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Unfortunately, HTML isn't a rich enough container. If you try to add a diagram to HTML, suddenly you need two files. The "webarchive" file formats get around th

Unfortunately, HTML isn't a rich enough container. If you try to add a diagram to HTML, suddenly you need two files. The "webarchive" file formats get around this, but they're not standard. It seems to me that we need something like PDF, but that isn't so hung up on the idea of formatting physical pages. If I'm reading on a phone, I want it to reflow.

monsterix 15y ago
I bet you're wrong. There is nothing more than just a container, a space and memory hog, that word processors and Adobe suites provide. I believe that HTML is far more powerful than currently tapped.
- freehunter 15y ago
  There is nothing more than just a container, a space and memory hog, that word processors and Adobe suites provide. Which is exactly what OP was complaining about. HTML documents need multiple files to work correctly. .DOC and .PDF provide this. There is no standard for HTML containters. I believe that HTML is far more powerful than currently tapped. Key term for this chapter is "than currently tapped". The problem is, .DOC and .PDF solve all the problems HTML documents have. The take-home assignment is to make an HTML container that can be read and edited in software that everyone has, then convince the world (and hiring managers) that everyone should stop using Word even though it works perfectly fine. Extra credit if you make it as rich and feature filled as Word without making it more bloated than Word.
  - monsterix 15y ago
    That's a tough bet, but not undo-able. Looking at capabilities extended by HTML5, and the containers that the browsers already are, I don't feel (though I could be wrong) that day is too far. Yep, someone has to build a standard for HTML containers to contain documentary elements like Word/PDF have done so far.
acdha 15y ago
HTML isn't a container at all but what you're describing is basically ePub3 - HTML and resources inside a container, designed for reflow and other advanced scenarios which clash with PDF's basic philosophy.
- oddthink 15y ago
  That's true; ePub is certainly trying to do the right thing here. I haven't used it much myself, so I don't know how well it works. For my own uses, I'd like to get decent equations and LaTeX-like special characters (e.g. \nabla), but I can live with embedded PNG or GIF. (Not that that really alters the basic point, which was that HTML, by itself, isn't enough. The object tag might be a good enough solution, I don't know.)
mbenkard 15y ago
If you try to add a diagram to HTML, suddenly you need two files. That's not strictly true. You can embed inline object data in object tags (http://www.w3.org/TR/html40/struct/objects.html#h-13.3 http://www.w3.org/TR/html40/struct/objects.html#h-13.3) using the data: URI scheme (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2397.html http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2397.html). Whether that is good enough, I don't know. The data needing to be physically inserted at each point of use certainly isn't great for space usage and performance. But then, in the context of email, why not just use MIME?

monsterix 15y ago

I bet you're wrong. There is nothing more than just a container, a space and memory hog, that word processors and Adobe suites provide. I believe that HTML is far more powerful than currently tapped.

freehunter 15y ago
There is nothing more than just a container, a space and memory hog, that word processors and Adobe suites provide. Which is exactly what OP was complaining about. HTML documents need multiple files to work correctly. .DOC and .PDF provide this. There is no standard for HTML containters. I believe that HTML is far more powerful than currently tapped. Key term for this chapter is "than currently tapped". The problem is, .DOC and .PDF solve all the problems HTML documents have. The take-home assignment is to make an HTML container that can be read and edited in software that everyone has, then convince the world (and hiring managers) that everyone should stop using Word even though it works perfectly fine. Extra credit if you make it as rich and feature filled as Word without making it more bloated than Word.
- monsterix 15y ago
  That's a tough bet, but not undo-able. Looking at capabilities extended by HTML5, and the containers that the browsers already are, I don't feel (though I could be wrong) that day is too far. Yep, someone has to build a standard for HTML containers to contain documentary elements like Word/PDF have done so far.

acdha 15y ago

HTML isn't a container at all but what you're describing is basically ePub3 - HTML and resources inside a container, designed for reflow and other advanced scenarios which clash with PDF's basic philosophy.

oddthink 15y ago
That's true; ePub is certainly trying to do the right thing here. I haven't used it much myself, so I don't know how well it works. For my own uses, I'd like to get decent equations and LaTeX-like special characters (e.g. \nabla), but I can live with embedded PNG or GIF. (Not that that really alters the basic point, which was that HTML, by itself, isn't enough. The object tag might be a good enough solution, I don't know.)

mbenkard 15y ago

If you try to add a diagram to HTML, suddenly you need two files. That's not strictly true. You can embed inline object data in object tags (http://www.w3.org/TR/html40/struct/objects.html#h-13.3 http://www.w3.org/TR/html40/struct/objects.html#h-13.3) using the data: URI scheme (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2397.html http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2397.html). Whether that is good enough, I don't know. The data needing to be physically inserted at each point of use certainly isn't great for space usage and performance. But then, in the context of email, why not just use MIME?