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> There is no "late stage capitalism" there, only human beings using systems irresponsibly by abandoning well known and long practiced rules for avoiding serio

> There is no "late stage capitalism" there, only human beings using systems irresponsibly by abandoning well known and long practiced rules for avoiding serious social harm. What do you think "late stage capitalism" means exactly? Because it sounds like you are describing a situation that fits the definition but saying it doesn't exist...

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Consider the late Roman Empire. The Roman Empire had a beginning, and then an end, and the "late" part was the part that was closer to the end. That's the normal meaning of the word "late". So "late stage capitalism" means - or at least implies - that it's the form capitalism takes before capitalism finally ends. It shouldn't be used for a form that capitalism repeatedly cycles into and out of. If you wanted to use a different term to describe this phase - "monopolistic phase capitalism" or something - then that would be fine. "Late stage", though, gives an illusion of linear movement through a definite time period, which historically has proven to be an incorrect view.
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  Don't think the term came with any timeframe when it was coined (and the "phases of capitalism" where long, like hundreds of years). Whether it is a late-stage or not is up to future, really, though. I would agree, though, that there are sharper terms to describe the current flavor of capitalism.
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  > So "late stage capitalism" means - or at least implies - that it's the form capitalism takes before capitalism finally ends That's not how terms work. Maybe you don't like the phrase but it has a meaning, you can't just decide a commonly used term means something else and then debate that strawman. > If you wanted to use a different term to describe this phase - "monopolistic phase capitalism" or something Who is the "you" here? My grandfather was a mere lad when this term was coined.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    Terms have a denotation - the defined meaning - and then they have a connotation - what they imply. I'm objecting to the latter. And, we're not at an academic conference that studies such things. We're on HN, where most of the people don't have a precise definition of the term in mind when they read stuff like this. So the misleading connotation matters, at least in this setting.
m0llusk 3y ago
If you light a fire to cook and your house burns down, is the burned house late stage cooking fire? If you try to drive somewhere and your car goes off the road and crashes into a tree is that late stage vehicular mobility?
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  What does any of this have to do with the definition of the commonly used term "late stage capitalism"?
  - m0llusk 3y ago
    Pointing out terms that are distracting, meaningless, or useless may help with composition of meaningful and effective problem statements and solutions. For example, one of the major problems we are experiencing now is with what has come to be known as Financialization. This enables financiers to generate large income streams without accompanying increases in productivity. There is a body of knowledge about how this works that includes robust and proven regulatory measures for limiting and controlling Financialization. In a society where we can vote, organize other voters, and even run for office the term "late stage capitalism" is intended to advance an passive agenda. Instead of taking responsibility for how our society functions or fails we can lie back and console ourselves that this was merely the way of things. We aren't having economic problems because we have failed to manage economic systems that we control, but because economies are naturally and inevitably drawn to failure. It is a way of giving up despite knowing the way out.
    - Ensorceled 3y ago
      That doesn't make sense, you think that "late stage capitalism" is distracting but Financialization is a useful term, why? And it's beside the point, if I didn't like the term Financialization, I couldn't just announce Financialization doesn't exist; it most certainly exists. At least I can't do that in good faith.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

Consider the late Roman Empire. The Roman Empire had a beginning, and then an end, and the "late" part was the part that was closer to the end. That's the normal meaning of the word "late". So "late stage capitalism" means - or at least implies - that it's the form capitalism takes before capitalism finally ends. It shouldn't be used for a form that capitalism repeatedly cycles into and out of. If you wanted to use a different term to describe this phase - "monopolistic phase capitalism" or something - then that would be fine. "Late stage", though, gives an illusion of linear movement through a definite time period, which historically has proven to be an incorrect view.

RandomLensman 3y ago
Don't think the term came with any timeframe when it was coined (and the "phases of capitalism" where long, like hundreds of years). Whether it is a late-stage or not is up to future, really, though. I would agree, though, that there are sharper terms to describe the current flavor of capitalism.
Ensorceled 3y ago
> So "late stage capitalism" means - or at least implies - that it's the form capitalism takes before capitalism finally ends That's not how terms work. Maybe you don't like the phrase but it has a meaning, you can't just decide a commonly used term means something else and then debate that strawman. > If you wanted to use a different term to describe this phase - "monopolistic phase capitalism" or something Who is the "you" here? My grandfather was a mere lad when this term was coined.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Terms have a denotation - the defined meaning - and then they have a connotation - what they imply. I'm objecting to the latter. And, we're not at an academic conference that studies such things. We're on HN, where most of the people don't have a precise definition of the term in mind when they read stuff like this. So the misleading connotation matters, at least in this setting.

m0llusk 3y ago

If you light a fire to cook and your house burns down, is the burned house late stage cooking fire? If you try to drive somewhere and your car goes off the road and crashes into a tree is that late stage vehicular mobility?

Ensorceled 3y ago
What does any of this have to do with the definition of the commonly used term "late stage capitalism"?
- m0llusk 3y ago
  Pointing out terms that are distracting, meaningless, or useless may help with composition of meaningful and effective problem statements and solutions. For example, one of the major problems we are experiencing now is with what has come to be known as Financialization. This enables financiers to generate large income streams without accompanying increases in productivity. There is a body of knowledge about how this works that includes robust and proven regulatory measures for limiting and controlling Financialization. In a society where we can vote, organize other voters, and even run for office the term "late stage capitalism" is intended to advance an passive agenda. Instead of taking responsibility for how our society functions or fails we can lie back and console ourselves that this was merely the way of things. We aren't having economic problems because we have failed to manage economic systems that we control, but because economies are naturally and inevitably drawn to failure. It is a way of giving up despite knowing the way out.
  - Ensorceled 3y ago
    That doesn't make sense, you think that "late stage capitalism" is distracting but Financialization is a useful term, why? And it's beside the point, if I didn't like the term Financialization, I couldn't just announce Financialization doesn't exist; it most certainly exists. At least I can't do that in good faith.