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100%. We do have a problem with the current setup but unfortunately the argument gets co-opted by left-right superficial complainers, and "late stage capitalism

100%. We do have a problem with the current setup but unfortunately the argument gets co-opted by left-right superficial complainers, and "late stage capitalism" is a good proxy to know which side of the divide the author lies. The issue with the current system parallels what was wrong in the 1920s-1930s, i.e. too much concentrated private power, and the solution then was Antitrust, not redistribution of wealth, not regulation directing how the robber barons should operate, and definitely not communism. Just straight-up trust-busting to strike a delicate balance between just enough government and corporate power to keep each other in check

paganel 3y ago
At this point the “center” has also become an extreme wing, I mean, failing to see the obvious societal problems brought by the current economic system (however one might want to call it) is purely based on ideology, there’s no moderate common sense that used to be the domain of the centrists in past times. As such, calling out left- or right-wing extremists from a position that has become itself ideologically extremist is bringing nothing new to the political discourse.
- h2odragon 3y ago
  In your view, are there any non-extremists? Perhaps the only purity to be found is in the ignorant, the innocent, the children? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade
  - pseg134 3y ago
    I think he would be okay with mentally retarded people as well.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - paganel 3y ago
    At least back then kids weren’t cutting themselves because of depression at age 11 or 12 nor were they killing themselves because of the same reason at age 16-17, and I’m talking about cases that I know directly (mean not read in the media). So, yes, the condition of children in our society was included in my original thought. But me wanting for us to resume the (even extended) family as a solution to that problem would get me branded almost on the spot as at least right-wing adjacent by what now stands for “centrists”, because “family values” as a whole are now associated to right-wing-ism. I could give at least two, three other examples (probably more) of stuff that I believe in which would probably get me branded as left-wing, stuff that used to be the domain of common sense, of the political center, until a few decades ago even in the West (for example affordable housing for all is being more and more associated with being left-wing, that wasn’t always the case).
- danaris 3y ago
  I think that what's actually happening is that "the center" in the US (and some other Western countries) is now so far to the right due to the moving Overton window that to maintain a "centrist" position requires, as you say, willful blindness to various societal and economic problems. This doesn't make it "more extreme centrism"; it just means that "the center" is already flirting with what would by any other measures be the far right. ...Actually, I think there is another force at work here: many of the people who consider themselves "centrists" in the US are the same who considered themselves such 20, 30, even 40 years ago. But a) with the aforementioned moving of the Overton window, they are having to suppress increasing amounts of cognitive dissonance to continue to self-identify as centrists without recognizing that they are now well to the right of where they would have been previously, and b) with the (slightly paradoxical, only possible due to the increased polarization) simultaneous increase in awareness of the marginalization of various groups, and acknowledgment that it is neither good nor neutral to continue that marginalization, anyone advocating for either maintaining the status quo or returning to some prior state has to either openly state that they want to continue the oppression of these groups, or, again, suppress the cognitive dissonance in any of various ways. In the end, I think it's really just a long-winded way of restating the Desmond Tutu quote: "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > "the center" in the US (and some other Western countries) is now so far to the right Can you give an example? I can think of plenty of thing where things have moved very far to the left in the US.
    - danaris 3y ago
      Well, it's not really any one thing. It's more the general sets of policies & ideologies that the various parts of our political spectrum hold, looked at from an objective (or at least more global) point of view. Additionally, I did specifically mention that, at the same time as this has been going on, a second movement has been underway that counterbalances it to some extent, and that this is resulting in unprecedented(?) levels of political polarization.

paganel 3y ago

At this point the “center” has also become an extreme wing, I mean, failing to see the obvious societal problems brought by the current economic system (however one might want to call it) is purely based on ideology, there’s no moderate common sense that used to be the domain of the centrists in past times. As such, calling out left- or right-wing extremists from a position that has become itself ideologically extremist is bringing nothing new to the political discourse.

h2odragon 3y ago
In your view, are there any non-extremists? Perhaps the only purity to be found is in the ignorant, the innocent, the children? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade
- pseg134 3y ago
  I think he would be okay with mentally retarded people as well.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- paganel 3y ago
  At least back then kids weren’t cutting themselves because of depression at age 11 or 12 nor were they killing themselves because of the same reason at age 16-17, and I’m talking about cases that I know directly (mean not read in the media). So, yes, the condition of children in our society was included in my original thought. But me wanting for us to resume the (even extended) family as a solution to that problem would get me branded almost on the spot as at least right-wing adjacent by what now stands for “centrists”, because “family values” as a whole are now associated to right-wing-ism. I could give at least two, three other examples (probably more) of stuff that I believe in which would probably get me branded as left-wing, stuff that used to be the domain of common sense, of the political center, until a few decades ago even in the West (for example affordable housing for all is being more and more associated with being left-wing, that wasn’t always the case).
danaris 3y ago
I think that what's actually happening is that "the center" in the US (and some other Western countries) is now so far to the right due to the moving Overton window that to maintain a "centrist" position requires, as you say, willful blindness to various societal and economic problems. This doesn't make it "more extreme centrism"; it just means that "the center" is already flirting with what would by any other measures be the far right. ...Actually, I think there is another force at work here: many of the people who consider themselves "centrists" in the US are the same who considered themselves such 20, 30, even 40 years ago. But a) with the aforementioned moving of the Overton window, they are having to suppress increasing amounts of cognitive dissonance to continue to self-identify as centrists without recognizing that they are now well to the right of where they would have been previously, and b) with the (slightly paradoxical, only possible due to the increased polarization) simultaneous increase in awareness of the marginalization of various groups, and acknowledgment that it is neither good nor neutral to continue that marginalization, anyone advocating for either maintaining the status quo or returning to some prior state has to either openly state that they want to continue the oppression of these groups, or, again, suppress the cognitive dissonance in any of various ways. In the end, I think it's really just a long-winded way of restating the Desmond Tutu quote: "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > "the center" in the US (and some other Western countries) is now so far to the right Can you give an example? I can think of plenty of thing where things have moved very far to the left in the US.
  - danaris 3y ago
    Well, it's not really any one thing. It's more the general sets of policies & ideologies that the various parts of our political spectrum hold, looked at from an objective (or at least more global) point of view. Additionally, I did specifically mention that, at the same time as this has been going on, a second movement has been underway that counterbalances it to some extent, and that this is resulting in unprecedented(?) levels of political polarization.