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They have a pathological fear of government overreach. An identity card issued by the government would lead to a slippery slope of something, not sure what. HN

They have a pathological fear of government overreach. An identity card issued by the government would lead to a slippery slope of something, not sure what. HN is fertile ground for such paranoia, so no doubt someone will explain exactly what will happen if all US residents received a free identification card. Anyway, they get around this by using their Social Security Numbers everywhere. All residents have one. They use this in a novel way, where it’s both a username and a password, that you share with every corporation who asks. You’re supposed to keep it very secret because people can open financial accounts in your name with this number. But not that secret. Your utility company may ask for it and won’t provide service without it. Since it’s both a username and password, it’s stored very securely. Except when it isn’t, breaches happen, and people have no recourse. It’s immutable, so they can’t do anything other than say “don’t process any credit checks for me” and hope that works. Anyway, that’s the short version of why Americans are terrified of being assigned an ID, actually have an ID (SSN), but can’t use that ID because it’s super secret, but then use it everywhere anyway because they have no choice.

criddell 3y ago
> Both Republicans and Democrats have opposed a National ID system. President Reagan likened a 1981 proposal to the biblical “mark of the beast,” and President Clinton dismissed a similar plan because it smacked of Big Brother. A National ID would not only violate privacy by helping to consolidate data and facilitate tracking of individuals, it would bring government into the very center of our lives by serving as a government permission slip needed by everyone in order to work. As happened with Social Security cards decades ago, use of such ID cards would quickly spread and be used for other purposes – from travel to voting to gun ownership. https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/broad-coalition-urges-president-obama-and-congress-oppose-biometric-national-id https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/broad-coalition-urges-pr...
ethanbond 3y ago
As an American, this is an excellent rundown. A national ID would indeed have us quickly slipping toward… something… and of course it’s unsavory if it has “federal” or “national” anywhere in it. I leave my identity management to the private credit bureaus, who are guided by the infallible hand of the free market, thank you very much.
- manuelmoreale 3y ago
  As an European with all sorts of IDs issued by my government I’m so confused as to what that “something” is supposed to be honestly. So weird.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    The "something" is a consolidation of federal power. The US is not a unitary state like most of the countries in Europe. The states hold a lot of power individually, and many want to maintain that as much as possible. The rules around identification are something that is significant to how people interact with their government and people do not want those rules to be decided federally when they can maintain that power locally instead.
    - manuelmoreale 3y ago
      > The "something" is a consolidation of federal power. Ok but I still don't understand what power are you consolidating here. If the federal government decided to issue an ID card valid for all citizens, what's the issue? You already have something that work that way and it's the passport. Now, I know that having a passport is not mandatory but if tomorrow the US government decided to issue passports, for free, to all citizens, would that be an issue?
      - kube-system 3y ago
        A passport is only used for international travel, which was already under the purview of the feds. It is also only used for travel, which means that many people don't have one. Drivers licenses (/IDs) are used for everything else pertaining to someone's daily life. In this way it affects how/who/where/when people drive, vote, buy and sell controlled things, engage in some financial transactions, travel domestically, obtain social benefits, etc. It allows local authorities to be gatekeepers. A commonly used and carried federal ID would shift that gatekeeping authority to the feds. It could also enable additional gatekeeping which is not currently possible in the absence of this ID, which is a primary concern of the people who are against this.
rawgabbit 3y ago
You have a charming way with words. Yes, national IDs and the right to bear arms are wrapped up in our national identity. To paraphrase Charleston Heston, they can put a national ID in my wallet when they pry the AR15 from my cold dead hands. Never mind I am trusted traveler with global entry and I have a real ID state drivers license. Never mind the Chinese government hacked the federal Human Resources database all those years ago and have the data for anyone who took a paycheck from Uncle Sam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management...
PrivateButts 3y ago
^ yep. SSNs are also terrible to collect, as they are hard to verify if the user even gave you a valid number, as there's no self checking system like credit cards, you have to check against some 3rd party database that may know who that person is, but can't be sure, or just may not know who they are. Also, if you fuck up, you screw over a lot of people. Fun fact, until 2011 SSNs were loosely based on where you were born. If you were a bad actor and wanted to use a fake SSN, just change a couple of numbers at the end and you could get a new number of someone that was born around when you were, in the same hospital as you.
cookie_monsta 3y ago
This is probably the most rational description of what is clearly an insane system that I have seen. Thank you.

criddell 3y ago

> Both Republicans and Democrats have opposed a National ID system. President Reagan likened a 1981 proposal to the biblical “mark of the beast,” and President Clinton dismissed a similar plan because it smacked of Big Brother. A National ID would not only violate privacy by helping to consolidate data and facilitate tracking of individuals, it would bring government into the very center of our lives by serving as a government permission slip needed by everyone in order to work. As happened with Social Security cards decades ago, use of such ID cards would quickly spread and be used for other purposes – from travel to voting to gun ownership. https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/broad-coalition-urges-president-obama-and-congress-oppose-biometric-national-id https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/broad-coalition-urges-pr...

ethanbond 3y ago

As an American, this is an excellent rundown. A national ID would indeed have us quickly slipping toward… something… and of course it’s unsavory if it has “federal” or “national” anywhere in it. I leave my identity management to the private credit bureaus, who are guided by the infallible hand of the free market, thank you very much.

manuelmoreale 3y ago
As an European with all sorts of IDs issued by my government I’m so confused as to what that “something” is supposed to be honestly. So weird.
- kube-system 3y ago
  The "something" is a consolidation of federal power. The US is not a unitary state like most of the countries in Europe. The states hold a lot of power individually, and many want to maintain that as much as possible. The rules around identification are something that is significant to how people interact with their government and people do not want those rules to be decided federally when they can maintain that power locally instead.
  - manuelmoreale 3y ago
    > The "something" is a consolidation of federal power. Ok but I still don't understand what power are you consolidating here. If the federal government decided to issue an ID card valid for all citizens, what's the issue? You already have something that work that way and it's the passport. Now, I know that having a passport is not mandatory but if tomorrow the US government decided to issue passports, for free, to all citizens, would that be an issue?
    - kube-system 3y ago
      A passport is only used for international travel, which was already under the purview of the feds. It is also only used for travel, which means that many people don't have one. Drivers licenses (/IDs) are used for everything else pertaining to someone's daily life. In this way it affects how/who/where/when people drive, vote, buy and sell controlled things, engage in some financial transactions, travel domestically, obtain social benefits, etc. It allows local authorities to be gatekeepers. A commonly used and carried federal ID would shift that gatekeeping authority to the feds. It could also enable additional gatekeeping which is not currently possible in the absence of this ID, which is a primary concern of the people who are against this.

rawgabbit 3y ago

You have a charming way with words. Yes, national IDs and the right to bear arms are wrapped up in our national identity. To paraphrase Charleston Heston, they can put a national ID in my wallet when they pry the AR15 from my cold dead hands. Never mind I am trusted traveler with global entry and I have a real ID state drivers license. Never mind the Chinese government hacked the federal Human Resources database all those years ago and have the data for anyone who took a paycheck from Uncle Sam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management...

PrivateButts 3y ago

^ yep. SSNs are also terrible to collect, as they are hard to verify if the user even gave you a valid number, as there's no self checking system like credit cards, you have to check against some 3rd party database that may know who that person is, but can't be sure, or just may not know who they are. Also, if you fuck up, you screw over a lot of people. Fun fact, until 2011 SSNs were loosely based on where you were born. If you were a bad actor and wanted to use a fake SSN, just change a couple of numbers at the end and you could get a new number of someone that was born around when you were, in the same hospital as you.

cookie_monsta 3y ago

This is probably the most rational description of what is clearly an insane system that I have seen. Thank you.