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> Blondie, Elvis Costello, Television, the B-52s, and the Ramones — were called New Wave The Ramones were New Wave? What?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
riffraff 3y ago
It sounds odd to me, but I suppose "were called" is probably true in the sense that some did call them that, e.g. they are in the "new wave" compilation album. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_(compilation_album) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_(compilation_album)
kouru225 3y ago
Yea The Ramones were punk And don’t anyone tell me they were “proto-punk” that’s just ridiculous
- alrs 3y ago
  The Ramones were "punk" because their primary songwriter Dee-Dee was a male prostitute, the very definition of "punk."
jandrese 3y ago
They are New Wave the same way Jethro Tull is Heavy Metal.
vr46 3y ago
1980, End of the Century, produced by Phil Spector, so un-punk rock it was safe to be given to children in Florida schools
alrs 3y ago
Yes, punk was called new-wave in the late '70s. It was a reference to French cinema of the 1950s. "New Wave" didn't mean skinny ties and pink Trapper Keepers until the '80s. What you think of as New Wave was probably from the movement called "New Romantic." Think Duran-Duran. Here's a radio ad for the Sex Pistols playing Dallas in January 1978. "The Sex Pistols bring the new wave to the Metroplex this Tuesday night at the Longhorn Ballroom." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBg-eKOO2E8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBg-eKOO2E8
- jeffwass 3y ago
  Thanks for this. “New Wave” as a genre has never really felt well-defined for me, similar to the “Indie Rock” genre back in the 90’s.
Vaskerville 3y ago
"Nobody knows I'm New Wave" - Kurt Cobain
ogou 3y ago
None of those groups were New Wave. It was a synth-pop dance genre defined by the Human League, Gary Numan, Flock of Seagulls, The Normal, OMD, Ultravox, and Devo. The British press dubbed it New Wave as the inheritors of Disco, not rock. It was hated when it started charting, in the same way Disco was. People were just getting used to prog-rock and Pink Floyd imitators. The drum machines and synths made it worse. Punk was actually a descendent of NYC/LA youth movements, not the art rock diversions of NYC proto-rock. The Sex Pistols were mostly a marketing gimmick by Malcolm McClaren. But, people heard that album and started their own band. Punk as a movement came from the people inspired by the Pistols rather than the band itself. Nobody covered Sex Pistols songs. The Talking Heads are a white funk rock group that appeal to 80s college kids. There was rarely any taste crossover into synth-pop, new wave or punk. More like Bob Marley, David Bowie, Tom Waits, REM, and Red Hot Chili Peppers. Most of the big Talking Heads fans I know stopped listening to new music after 1990.
P_I_Staker 3y ago
New wave was never a good term. Hell, punk was a pointless genre too. There's just so many different brands and ideology. What do Duran Duran have to do with the Talking Heads? Pretty close to nothing. I don't even see talking heads as much of a "punk band". Especially, in the mid-late eras, they seem more like a proto-jamband, but I'll admit I don't understand the style differences at a purely musical level. Other "new wave" acts really look more like just punk bands. I don't understand how the ramones got classified as new wave... do they use synths? That's not THE distinguishing factor, but it makes it look more like new wave, vs. traditional punk. ... but maybe a punk band can use synths without crossing over into "new wave".
AlbertCory 3y ago
Danny Elfman and The Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo were called New Wave, too, as I recall. I talked to a French Horn player who's actually played some of his stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenada_Schizophrana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenada_Schizophrana coming to San Jose! https://www.dannyelfman.com/upcoming-events https://www.dannyelfman.com/upcoming-events
- whartung 3y ago
  Living in So Cal, I was fortunate to get to see Oingo Boingo several times, all at small venues, including once as their “fan club name”, the “Clowns of Death”. They never really made it big nationally, or chose not to, in terms of touring. I even saw the then new “Red Hot Chili Peppers” open for them, who far eclipsed them is n popularity. But at the same time, they were very local, and really accessible to local fans. They did a few large venues, but I never saw them at any of those. Elfman is said to have stopped touring due to the risk to his hearing because of how loud concerts were becoming, and him and Steve Bartek (Boingo guitarist and collaborator) transitioned quite successfully to movie soundtracks. I have to assume the advancements in things like in ear monitors make live performances much less damaging for performers. I’ve worn ear plugs at concerts for years.
throw4847285 3y ago
I highly recommend reading Simon Reynold's history of post-punk, "Rip It Up and Start Again." That book does a lot to break down the idea of discreet musical sub-genres in the late 70s and early 80s. There were individual scenes, for sure, but really there was just an explosion of creativity with that first wave of punk as more of a catalyst or a rallying cry. I also have some very uninformed personal thoughts on the term "pre-punk" which I find really silly. All it really means is that the Sex Pistols weren't nearly as original as the mythmaking states, and a lot of other bands were playing in the same sandbox before and after. It's not like every punk and post-punk band after the Pistols was primarily influenced by their sound. It was their posture. You can tell an alternate history of music that deemphasizes the Sex Pistols where there was a New Wave that started in the early 70s with the New York Dolls or the Stooges or something, and it includes the Ramones, the Modern Lovers, the Buzzcocks and a whole lot more. I'm not nearly knowledgable enough to really put the pieces together, beyond half-remembering this book I read several years ago. Still, it's fun to think about.
mcshicks 3y ago
Having been of a record buying age at that time, I think "New Wave" was really more of a marketing term. Punk had a somewhat bad reputation at the time, 78 I would have been 14. New Wave was a way to get people to buy records that were not from big venue rock bands, i.e. Stones, Who, ELO, Kiss etc. The Police's first record was considered "punk" when I got it among my peers. Got me into more of the local LA punk bands, although I was listening the Dickies before the Police. I knew lots of people listened to Blondie, the Dickies, the Germs or Black Flag not so many. As I mentioned on the other thread I actually was at the Pantages for the talking heads show it was awesome!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

riffraff 3y ago

It sounds odd to me, but I suppose "were called" is probably true in the sense that some did call them that, e.g. they are in the "new wave" compilation album. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_(compilation_album) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_(compilation_album)

kouru225 3y ago

Yea The Ramones were punk And don’t anyone tell me they were “proto-punk” that’s just ridiculous

alrs 3y ago
The Ramones were "punk" because their primary songwriter Dee-Dee was a male prostitute, the very definition of "punk."

jandrese 3y ago

They are New Wave the same way Jethro Tull is Heavy Metal.

vr46 3y ago

1980, End of the Century, produced by Phil Spector, so un-punk rock it was safe to be given to children in Florida schools

alrs 3y ago

Yes, punk was called new-wave in the late '70s. It was a reference to French cinema of the 1950s. "New Wave" didn't mean skinny ties and pink Trapper Keepers until the '80s. What you think of as New Wave was probably from the movement called "New Romantic." Think Duran-Duran. Here's a radio ad for the Sex Pistols playing Dallas in January 1978. "The Sex Pistols bring the new wave to the Metroplex this Tuesday night at the Longhorn Ballroom." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBg-eKOO2E8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBg-eKOO2E8

jeffwass 3y ago
Thanks for this. “New Wave” as a genre has never really felt well-defined for me, similar to the “Indie Rock” genre back in the 90’s.

Vaskerville 3y ago

"Nobody knows I'm New Wave" - Kurt Cobain

ogou 3y ago

None of those groups were New Wave. It was a synth-pop dance genre defined by the Human League, Gary Numan, Flock of Seagulls, The Normal, OMD, Ultravox, and Devo. The British press dubbed it New Wave as the inheritors of Disco, not rock. It was hated when it started charting, in the same way Disco was. People were just getting used to prog-rock and Pink Floyd imitators. The drum machines and synths made it worse. Punk was actually a descendent of NYC/LA youth movements, not the art rock diversions of NYC proto-rock. The Sex Pistols were mostly a marketing gimmick by Malcolm McClaren. But, people heard that album and started their own band. Punk as a movement came from the people inspired by the Pistols rather than the band itself. Nobody covered Sex Pistols songs. The Talking Heads are a white funk rock group that appeal to 80s college kids. There was rarely any taste crossover into synth-pop, new wave or punk. More like Bob Marley, David Bowie, Tom Waits, REM, and Red Hot Chili Peppers. Most of the big Talking Heads fans I know stopped listening to new music after 1990.

P_I_Staker 3y ago

New wave was never a good term. Hell, punk was a pointless genre too. There's just so many different brands and ideology. What do Duran Duran have to do with the Talking Heads? Pretty close to nothing. I don't even see talking heads as much of a "punk band". Especially, in the mid-late eras, they seem more like a proto-jamband, but I'll admit I don't understand the style differences at a purely musical level. Other "new wave" acts really look more like just punk bands. I don't understand how the ramones got classified as new wave... do they use synths? That's not THE distinguishing factor, but it makes it look more like new wave, vs. traditional punk. ... but maybe a punk band can use synths without crossing over into "new wave".

AlbertCory 3y ago

Danny Elfman and The Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo were called New Wave, too, as I recall. I talked to a French Horn player who's actually played some of his stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenada_Schizophrana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenada_Schizophrana coming to San Jose! https://www.dannyelfman.com/upcoming-events https://www.dannyelfman.com/upcoming-events

whartung 3y ago
Living in So Cal, I was fortunate to get to see Oingo Boingo several times, all at small venues, including once as their “fan club name”, the “Clowns of Death”. They never really made it big nationally, or chose not to, in terms of touring. I even saw the then new “Red Hot Chili Peppers” open for them, who far eclipsed them is n popularity. But at the same time, they were very local, and really accessible to local fans. They did a few large venues, but I never saw them at any of those. Elfman is said to have stopped touring due to the risk to his hearing because of how loud concerts were becoming, and him and Steve Bartek (Boingo guitarist and collaborator) transitioned quite successfully to movie soundtracks. I have to assume the advancements in things like in ear monitors make live performances much less damaging for performers. I’ve worn ear plugs at concerts for years.

throw4847285 3y ago

I highly recommend reading Simon Reynold's history of post-punk, "Rip It Up and Start Again." That book does a lot to break down the idea of discreet musical sub-genres in the late 70s and early 80s. There were individual scenes, for sure, but really there was just an explosion of creativity with that first wave of punk as more of a catalyst or a rallying cry. I also have some very uninformed personal thoughts on the term "pre-punk" which I find really silly. All it really means is that the Sex Pistols weren't nearly as original as the mythmaking states, and a lot of other bands were playing in the same sandbox before and after. It's not like every punk and post-punk band after the Pistols was primarily influenced by their sound. It was their posture. You can tell an alternate history of music that deemphasizes the Sex Pistols where there was a New Wave that started in the early 70s with the New York Dolls or the Stooges or something, and it includes the Ramones, the Modern Lovers, the Buzzcocks and a whole lot more. I'm not nearly knowledgable enough to really put the pieces together, beyond half-remembering this book I read several years ago. Still, it's fun to think about.

mcshicks 3y ago

Having been of a record buying age at that time, I think "New Wave" was really more of a marketing term. Punk had a somewhat bad reputation at the time, 78 I would have been 14. New Wave was a way to get people to buy records that were not from big venue rock bands, i.e. Stones, Who, ELO, Kiss etc. The Police's first record was considered "punk" when I got it among my peers. Got me into more of the local LA punk bands, although I was listening the Dickies before the Police. I knew lots of people listened to Blondie, the Dickies, the Germs or Black Flag not so many. As I mentioned on the other thread I actually was at the Pantages for the talking heads show it was awesome!