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We are still forcing students to use the same shitty Texas Instruments calculators with horrible screens, unacceptably convoluted interfaces, and criminally slo

We are still forcing students to use the same shitty Texas Instruments calculators with horrible screens, unacceptably convoluted interfaces, and criminally slow performance and power consumption due to these same standards bodies. Technology has been better than that for more than 20 years now. We’ve gotten to the point where current students can use the calculator their grandparent bought as a child. How will moving the SAT from a bubble sheet to a laptop change any of the real factors that contribute to this problem?

gnicholas 3y ago
I've never thought about the power consumption of TI calculators. I had an 85 and I recall changing the batteries occasionally, but not very often. I also didn't find the performance speed to be a hindrance during HS, including on the SATs. What did you use your calculator for that it was noticeably too slow for? How often did you have to replace batteries? I get that there are newer technologies out there, and perhaps it would be a genius startup idea to make a device that's just like a TI, but using modern chips.
- callalex 3y ago
  With current technology, 4 AA batteries should be able to power a calculator for an entire educational career from 6th to 12th grade, maybe more. Edit: in terms of performance, the buttons and LCD are very unresponsive, you can type faster than they display. When making any kinds of graphs with more than 2 functions, the drawing happens in the order of 5-10 seconds, modern hardware could do that in micro-to-milliseconds and get the CPU back to sleep to save battery. Anything involving regressions of inputted tables can take 10s of seconds, which again feels clunky and eats battery.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    No doubt. But is it a big deal to have to swap batteries once every couple years? I think the bigger waste is that these things still cost so much. I cannot believe that the TI-85 I used over 20 years ago is $70 on Amazon.
    - callalex 3y ago
      I agree, I think my point got bogged down in the details. Declaring scantron dead because the SAT is planning to go digital soon is so clearly out of touch nonsense on its face given how slowly technology is adopted in this space.
      - gnicholas 3y ago
        I dunno, my elementary school kids have never done a multiple choice test on paper. It does require that the schools have enough computers, but these days most schools seem to.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    I always liked the sluggishness. It made me think every operation through before I did it, so I couldn't just bruteforce results through guesswork. And the graph-drawing process was hypnotic. For some models, you couldn't even cancel drawing once it started so you really had to validate your own inputs. Everything about it forced an abundance of caution and efficiency...two qualities overlooked by so many "engineers" rushing through everything they do today.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  I mean there are technologies that I think kids should learn that TI can’t even approach. Symbolic integration, for example.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    But would a powerful calculator like that be allowed on the SAT?
    - whimsicalism 3y ago
      Why shouldn’t it be?
      - gnicholas 3y ago
        Well, some TI's aren't even allowed on the SAT. I think the reasoning is that they can solve equations for you. They do allow other TI's that can do this, but only if you format the equation appropriately. If GP is envisioning an even more powerful calculator, then it certainly wouldn't be allowed.
        whimsicalism 3y ago
        I get that it wouldn’t be allowed on the extant SAT, I am saying the SAT should be redesigned to include higher level questions that allow the use of technology like symbolic manipulators
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
As I struggled about 6 years ago to work the TI graphing calculator that was necessary for my Calculus course, I found that there were alternatives. There are emulators that you can just install and run on Windows. Even crazier, I was sorely tempted to use those websites where you could just enter in a formula, and it would do the derivation or integration totally automatically. I mean, I knew I'd get answers that way, but not learn the process. It was one of the most difficult classes for me. I believe that the IT-related majors later abolished all of their Calculus requirements.
bluepod4 3y ago
Have you seen the newer calculators? TI does still sell the older calculators but the newer ones have color screens at least. The interface is different (from my 2000s TI-83+ and TI-89) too. Also, I would have appreciated the app/online version when I was in school. The iPad app looks really nice. I felt a bit of jealousy when I saw it lol. I know you mentioned College Board’s calculator rules and iPads obviously wouldn’t apply but you were also speaking about the calculators in general. But are the calculators actually “shitty”? I have fond memories of my TI-83 and TI-89. They worked well. I don’t recall being annoyed by anything. But also I don’t tend to complain about things like this. Never have. For example, is a high schooler really complaining that much about battery consumption for their calculator? I don’t recall this at all in middle school or high school. I can see though how the general student could benefit from something slightly better. I can also see how these calculators would feel outdated to a current high school student. I just don’t think they were or are that bad lol. But again, I’m not one to overexaggerate things in the first place lol.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  It would have been lousy if the calculator just stopped working without notice. But my recollection is that you could tell when it was getting low on batteries because the display would get faint. Ah, the memories...
  - function_seven 3y ago
    Yeah, those things had 9 levels of contrast. With a fresh set of batteries the display would be crisp and contrasty at “3” or something. Then slowly you needed more and more levels to feel normal. Before you know it you’re running at contrast “9” and contemplating your next score. Then you realize, “oh yeah, batteries are on their way out.” As you snap the final AA place, you sign contentedly as you dial it back down to “3”.
    - bluepod4 3y ago
      Hmm. I’m not bragging at all but as someone who got a perfect score on the math section of the SAT (since scantron/bubble answers are being talked about) and enjoyed math a lot, I don’t recall this at all lol. Do you mind mentioning the year(s)? I said early 2000s in my first comment. The batteries lasted, at least for me. I recall having to replace them for sure. But it was never a big deal. And I’m speaking as a Black, lower middle class person growing up. It wasn’t that serious to me or the other people with similar backgrounds at my school(s). But still, I can understand why/how it would be serious to others (as I mentioned in my original comment).

gnicholas 3y ago

I've never thought about the power consumption of TI calculators. I had an 85 and I recall changing the batteries occasionally, but not very often. I also didn't find the performance speed to be a hindrance during HS, including on the SATs. What did you use your calculator for that it was noticeably too slow for? How often did you have to replace batteries? I get that there are newer technologies out there, and perhaps it would be a genius startup idea to make a device that's just like a TI, but using modern chips.

callalex 3y ago
With current technology, 4 AA batteries should be able to power a calculator for an entire educational career from 6th to 12th grade, maybe more. Edit: in terms of performance, the buttons and LCD are very unresponsive, you can type faster than they display. When making any kinds of graphs with more than 2 functions, the drawing happens in the order of 5-10 seconds, modern hardware could do that in micro-to-milliseconds and get the CPU back to sleep to save battery. Anything involving regressions of inputted tables can take 10s of seconds, which again feels clunky and eats battery.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  No doubt. But is it a big deal to have to swap batteries once every couple years? I think the bigger waste is that these things still cost so much. I cannot believe that the TI-85 I used over 20 years ago is $70 on Amazon.
  - callalex 3y ago
    I agree, I think my point got bogged down in the details. Declaring scantron dead because the SAT is planning to go digital soon is so clearly out of touch nonsense on its face given how slowly technology is adopted in this space.
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      I dunno, my elementary school kids have never done a multiple choice test on paper. It does require that the schools have enough computers, but these days most schools seem to.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  I always liked the sluggishness. It made me think every operation through before I did it, so I couldn't just bruteforce results through guesswork. And the graph-drawing process was hypnotic. For some models, you couldn't even cancel drawing once it started so you really had to validate your own inputs. Everything about it forced an abundance of caution and efficiency...two qualities overlooked by so many "engineers" rushing through everything they do today.
whimsicalism 3y ago
I mean there are technologies that I think kids should learn that TI can’t even approach. Symbolic integration, for example.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  But would a powerful calculator like that be allowed on the SAT?
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    Why shouldn’t it be?
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      Well, some TI's aren't even allowed on the SAT. I think the reasoning is that they can solve equations for you. They do allow other TI's that can do this, but only if you format the equation appropriately. If GP is envisioning an even more powerful calculator, then it certainly wouldn't be allowed.
      - whimsicalism 3y ago
        I get that it wouldn’t be allowed on the extant SAT, I am saying the SAT should be redesigned to include higher level questions that allow the use of technology like symbolic manipulators

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

As I struggled about 6 years ago to work the TI graphing calculator that was necessary for my Calculus course, I found that there were alternatives. There are emulators that you can just install and run on Windows. Even crazier, I was sorely tempted to use those websites where you could just enter in a formula, and it would do the derivation or integration totally automatically. I mean, I knew I'd get answers that way, but not learn the process. It was one of the most difficult classes for me. I believe that the IT-related majors later abolished all of their Calculus requirements.

bluepod4 3y ago

Have you seen the newer calculators? TI does still sell the older calculators but the newer ones have color screens at least. The interface is different (from my 2000s TI-83+ and TI-89) too. Also, I would have appreciated the app/online version when I was in school. The iPad app looks really nice. I felt a bit of jealousy when I saw it lol. I know you mentioned College Board’s calculator rules and iPads obviously wouldn’t apply but you were also speaking about the calculators in general. But are the calculators actually “shitty”? I have fond memories of my TI-83 and TI-89. They worked well. I don’t recall being annoyed by anything. But also I don’t tend to complain about things like this. Never have. For example, is a high schooler really complaining that much about battery consumption for their calculator? I don’t recall this at all in middle school or high school. I can see though how the general student could benefit from something slightly better. I can also see how these calculators would feel outdated to a current high school student. I just don’t think they were or are that bad lol. But again, I’m not one to overexaggerate things in the first place lol.

gnicholas 3y ago
It would have been lousy if the calculator just stopped working without notice. But my recollection is that you could tell when it was getting low on batteries because the display would get faint. Ah, the memories...
- function_seven 3y ago
  Yeah, those things had 9 levels of contrast. With a fresh set of batteries the display would be crisp and contrasty at “3” or something. Then slowly you needed more and more levels to feel normal. Before you know it you’re running at contrast “9” and contemplating your next score. Then you realize, “oh yeah, batteries are on their way out.” As you snap the final AA place, you sign contentedly as you dial it back down to “3”.
  - bluepod4 3y ago
    Hmm. I’m not bragging at all but as someone who got a perfect score on the math section of the SAT (since scantron/bubble answers are being talked about) and enjoyed math a lot, I don’t recall this at all lol. Do you mind mentioning the year(s)? I said early 2000s in my first comment. The batteries lasted, at least for me. I recall having to replace them for sure. But it was never a big deal. And I’m speaking as a Black, lower middle class person growing up. It wasn’t that serious to me or the other people with similar backgrounds at my school(s). But still, I can understand why/how it would be serious to others (as I mentioned in my original comment).