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Is this satire?? Respect for the user… While it forces a reboot While it tries to trick you in to upgrading to 11 While it sends huge amounts of telemetry t

Is this satire?? Respect for the user… While it forces a reboot While it tries to trick you in to upgrading to 11 While it sends huge amounts of telemetry to Microsoft When it forces you to sign up for an non-local account When it use dark patterns to get you to use Edge and upgrade to Windows 10 When it forces updates on Home users …

542458 3y ago
I agree with most everything else you’ve said, but I feel like I’m using a different windows than everyone else when they talk about “forced reboots”. This never happens to me! I’ve seen prompts, but they were always able to be delayed. Is it something that only kicks in if you go ages without manually rebooting? At a certain point though, I’d say forcing users to install critical security updates is the user-centered option.
- wpm 3y ago
  It’s not when it reboots in the middle of the night while you had open documents and apps, and the OS didn’t save any of that. However, the forced reboots are trivial to disable in Group Policy.
  - iopq 3y ago
    I can't use Group Policy because when I upgraded from Windows 8, it upgraded to Home edition it's Home edition because that's what came with the laptop's Windows 8, it was never an issue on Windows 8 because you could disable stuff on Windows 8 without using Group Policy
    - Rovoska 3y ago
      There are several ways to safely enable it on home.
- stelonix 3y ago
  I've been using Windows 10 for the past year and a 4 months now, after some 10 years 100% on Linux. I had to disable a weird setting which would forcefully update and reboot the computer when it considered to be "Not Active". I believe it was called "Active Hours" and by default had no way to turn off: you had to choose some hours of the day when you're supposedly not using it. Lost some work like this and had to do some tinkering, not sure if register or otherwise. Or maybe I just disabled automatic updates I guess. So, in conclusion, no, an OS taking control off my hands forcefully is not user-centered, no matter how much in programming circles updates are seen as "crucial". Nothing is more crucial than the computer being predictable to its owner.
- Kye 3y ago
  People forget the security hell that preceded Microsoft's obsession with updates. You get half the internet's bandwidth used by a worm or you get forced updates. I haven't seen anyone propose a viable compromise.
  - spongebobstoes 3y ago
    the right solution is updates that don't require any restart or service interruption. but that is technically difficult atm
  - LightHugger 3y ago
    Obviously auto security updates, and make the other updates optional. Microsoft does not bundle the security and "feature"/telemetry updates for your benefit.
jholman 3y ago
That list mostly seems a bit odd. This Windows computer doesn't force reboots (though it does nag me), it hasn't tried to trick me to upgrade to 11, it isn't sending telemetry to MS, it has never forced me to sign up for a non-local account. I think it does force security updates on me, which I think is clearly pro-user, though arguably not respectful. I also decided to use Edge to access my job's shitty Outlook stuff, and every ten minutes Edge tries to trick me into doing something, including but not restricted to making itself the default (you can pry my Firefox from my cold dead...). Until I decided to try Edge, it has not ever done anything to try to get me to use Edge. That said, I'm not agreeing with GP that Windows "has more respect for the user than Linux does", that just seems confused to me. But I also think that I read a lot of criticism of Windows that seems laughable.
- sodality2 3y ago
  > it isn't sending telemetry to MS How? Literally even LTSC builds have some amounts of telemetry. Are you running some nonstandard build of Windows?
  - jholman 3y ago
    Well, maybe I'm wrong about that. It's a standard build of Home, with an hour or two invested in config maybe a decade ago when I installed it (back when it was 7, or something, before 10 existed). I spent a little time on Wireshark seeing what it was doing, but not much time, and that was a long time ago. So maybe I'm wrong. :thinking:
    - sodality2 3y ago
      Ah, yeah, that’s true, but the point is that you should be respected by default (even if they just asked yes or no). It’s on by default, turns back on almost every update, and some level is on at all times (mandatory).
- Accacin 3y ago
  Previously when I installed Windows, I had the option to create a local account. I had to click on a few misdirections but I was able to do it. Recently though, I had to reinstall Windows to do something, and I could not find a way to create a local account at all. AFAIK they removed the option now, or made it much harder to find.
Falkon1313 3y ago
Mine doesn't do any of that. (Except maybe the telemetry, which I don't care about.) You've configured yours wrong if it is doing that.
delfinom 3y ago
And yet, my software from 20 years still works on Windows. On Linux, I have to spend days to months figuring out how to port code to the latest snowflake distro flavor dependency. And that's something that takes an software skilled individual, imagine how disrespected your average user is in this process.

542458 3y ago

I agree with most everything else you’ve said, but I feel like I’m using a different windows than everyone else when they talk about “forced reboots”. This never happens to me! I’ve seen prompts, but they were always able to be delayed. Is it something that only kicks in if you go ages without manually rebooting? At a certain point though, I’d say forcing users to install critical security updates is the user-centered option.

wpm 3y ago
It’s not when it reboots in the middle of the night while you had open documents and apps, and the OS didn’t save any of that. However, the forced reboots are trivial to disable in Group Policy.
- iopq 3y ago
  I can't use Group Policy because when I upgraded from Windows 8, it upgraded to Home edition it's Home edition because that's what came with the laptop's Windows 8, it was never an issue on Windows 8 because you could disable stuff on Windows 8 without using Group Policy
  - Rovoska 3y ago
    There are several ways to safely enable it on home.
stelonix 3y ago
I've been using Windows 10 for the past year and a 4 months now, after some 10 years 100% on Linux. I had to disable a weird setting which would forcefully update and reboot the computer when it considered to be "Not Active". I believe it was called "Active Hours" and by default had no way to turn off: you had to choose some hours of the day when you're supposedly not using it. Lost some work like this and had to do some tinkering, not sure if register or otherwise. Or maybe I just disabled automatic updates I guess. So, in conclusion, no, an OS taking control off my hands forcefully is not user-centered, no matter how much in programming circles updates are seen as "crucial". Nothing is more crucial than the computer being predictable to its owner.
Kye 3y ago
People forget the security hell that preceded Microsoft's obsession with updates. You get half the internet's bandwidth used by a worm or you get forced updates. I haven't seen anyone propose a viable compromise.
- spongebobstoes 3y ago
  the right solution is updates that don't require any restart or service interruption. but that is technically difficult atm
- LightHugger 3y ago
  Obviously auto security updates, and make the other updates optional. Microsoft does not bundle the security and "feature"/telemetry updates for your benefit.

jholman 3y ago

That list mostly seems a bit odd. This Windows computer doesn't force reboots (though it does nag me), it hasn't tried to trick me to upgrade to 11, it isn't sending telemetry to MS, it has never forced me to sign up for a non-local account. I think it does force security updates on me, which I think is clearly pro-user, though arguably not respectful. I also decided to use Edge to access my job's shitty Outlook stuff, and every ten minutes Edge tries to trick me into doing something, including but not restricted to making itself the default (you can pry my Firefox from my cold dead...). Until I decided to try Edge, it has not ever done anything to try to get me to use Edge. That said, I'm not agreeing with GP that Windows "has more respect for the user than Linux does", that just seems confused to me. But I also think that I read a lot of criticism of Windows that seems laughable.

sodality2 3y ago
> it isn't sending telemetry to MS How? Literally even LTSC builds have some amounts of telemetry. Are you running some nonstandard build of Windows?
- jholman 3y ago
  Well, maybe I'm wrong about that. It's a standard build of Home, with an hour or two invested in config maybe a decade ago when I installed it (back when it was 7, or something, before 10 existed). I spent a little time on Wireshark seeing what it was doing, but not much time, and that was a long time ago. So maybe I'm wrong. :thinking:
  - sodality2 3y ago
    Ah, yeah, that’s true, but the point is that you should be respected by default (even if they just asked yes or no). It’s on by default, turns back on almost every update, and some level is on at all times (mandatory).
Accacin 3y ago
Previously when I installed Windows, I had the option to create a local account. I had to click on a few misdirections but I was able to do it. Recently though, I had to reinstall Windows to do something, and I could not find a way to create a local account at all. AFAIK they removed the option now, or made it much harder to find.

Falkon1313 3y ago

Mine doesn't do any of that. (Except maybe the telemetry, which I don't care about.) You've configured yours wrong if it is doing that.

delfinom 3y ago

And yet, my software from 20 years still works on Windows. On Linux, I have to spend days to months figuring out how to port code to the latest snowflake distro flavor dependency. And that's something that takes an software skilled individual, imagine how disrespected your average user is in this process.