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I mean if you have an iPhone and thats your only Apple device this looks cool, but its kinda crazy Macbooks still ship with 1080p cameras. Not the event this m

by w-ll 3y ago

I mean if you have an iPhone and thats your only Apple device this looks cool, but its kinda crazy Macbooks still ship with 1080p cameras. Not the event this month, but i think the one before that they demoedd using your iphone as camera for facetime on the desktop.

faeriechangling 3y ago
The webcams are for videoconferencing. It’s pretty rare for videoconferencing to support better than 1080p30. Apple is not exactly shy about using mediocre parts when it won’t make a difference. What surprised me was how long Apple was on 720p.
- twobitshifter 3y ago
  Well there’s more you can with more resolution than transmit a bigger picture. Try the iPad camera during FaceTime. That will pan and zoom the view to keep you in focus and it’s only made possible by good resolution and a wide angle camera.
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    I’ve configured OBS to do this with a 4K camera with a wide angle lens I have, plugged into a laptop with a 1080p camera. Which is be better than any camera they could ever fit into a Mac due to the sensor size. I usually don’t turn this effect on because I find it’s a little distracting… The other issue I didn’t bring up is the form factor. Phones and tablets simply have more room for a webcam than the MacBook Pro screen and I don’t actually know anybody shipping a laptop with a built-in 4K webcam. Mind you that Apple could ship a better camera with its studio display but opts not to.
  - pnpnp 3y ago
    The iPad also has a lot more room for camera hardware than a MacBook. They’re a lot thicker.
  - hunters_laptop 3y ago
    [dead]
- TylerE 3y ago
  What probably would move the needle would be some sort of built in ring light.
  - stavros 3y ago
    We should mount a big light-generating component right under the camera!
mxxx 3y ago
The res isn’t even the problem, the minute you aren’t in broad daylight the image quality drops off rapidly.
brailsafe 3y ago
It's ironic that they default to using the built-in webcam for Apple Developer ID authentication, because text doesn't come out clear enough to be recognized.
pnpnp 3y ago
I see this argument a lot, but it’s actually a pretty complex trade off. Screen size, target audience (1080p Zoom), cost, sensor size, and pixel size all come into play. You can pump numbers for the sake of it on paper, but the reality is that it’s very hard to cram a good image sensor into a laptop screen in an economic way. There’s unfortunately just not enough real estate as thin as they are. Meanwhile, phones are quite a bit thicker & cameras are a huge selling point. Plus, almost everyone has one. It makes sense that if you want higher quality video on your computer, you’d use the other device which has video higher up on the design priority list.
- munk-a 3y ago
  > There’s unfortunately just not enough real estate as thin as they are. Darn, one piece of marketing BS getting in the way of other marketing BS. Yea, 1080p is plenty high res enough for your work meetings and family calls - but users don't really care about the thin aspect, we care about weight. Getting better key depth on laptops in exchange for a modicum of extra width is a deal I'd take any day of the week... and that'd allow far better cooling engineering and for a few more bulky components.
  - afiori 3y ago
    In the context of cameras thickness is of the screen, not of the laptop as a whole
    - OJFord 3y ago
      I think that was just another example, since key depth obviously has nothing to do with camera image sensor resolution.
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      There is no physical restriction preventing the screen from getting thicker though. At the end of the day it's a trade-off Apple is taking.
      - 3y ago
audunw 3y ago
Higher resolution would be a complete waste for videoconferencing. Having good pixels and a good lens is far more important than high resolution, especially for video. And resolution often comes at the cost of pixel quality. Small pixels have worse sensitivity, unless you can fit a bigger CMOS sensor. But you’re not going to fit a really good lens on the laptop screen without an annoying bulge anyway, and for 99% of people it would be a waste to spend resources on it anyway. Using the phone is a much better solution. People are likely to have a good camera there with an OK lens anyway.
- gsich 3y ago
  >But you’re not going to fit a really good lens on the laptop screen without an annoying bulge anyway, and for 99% of people it would be a waste to spend resources on it anyway. It can be done without a bulge. But designers gonna design and make something ugly. Smartphone CMOS sensors are not bigger than the usual stuff in Laptop bezels.

by w-ll 3y ago

faeriechangling 3y ago

The webcams are for videoconferencing. It’s pretty rare for videoconferencing to support better than 1080p30. Apple is not exactly shy about using mediocre parts when it won’t make a difference. What surprised me was how long Apple was on 720p.

twobitshifter 3y ago
Well there’s more you can with more resolution than transmit a bigger picture. Try the iPad camera during FaceTime. That will pan and zoom the view to keep you in focus and it’s only made possible by good resolution and a wide angle camera.
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  I’ve configured OBS to do this with a 4K camera with a wide angle lens I have, plugged into a laptop with a 1080p camera. Which is be better than any camera they could ever fit into a Mac due to the sensor size. I usually don’t turn this effect on because I find it’s a little distracting… The other issue I didn’t bring up is the form factor. Phones and tablets simply have more room for a webcam than the MacBook Pro screen and I don’t actually know anybody shipping a laptop with a built-in 4K webcam. Mind you that Apple could ship a better camera with its studio display but opts not to.
- pnpnp 3y ago
  The iPad also has a lot more room for camera hardware than a MacBook. They’re a lot thicker.
- hunters_laptop 3y ago
  [dead]
TylerE 3y ago
What probably would move the needle would be some sort of built in ring light.
- stavros 3y ago
  We should mount a big light-generating component right under the camera!

mxxx 3y ago

The res isn’t even the problem, the minute you aren’t in broad daylight the image quality drops off rapidly.

brailsafe 3y ago

It's ironic that they default to using the built-in webcam for Apple Developer ID authentication, because text doesn't come out clear enough to be recognized.

pnpnp 3y ago

I see this argument a lot, but it’s actually a pretty complex trade off. Screen size, target audience (1080p Zoom), cost, sensor size, and pixel size all come into play. You can pump numbers for the sake of it on paper, but the reality is that it’s very hard to cram a good image sensor into a laptop screen in an economic way. There’s unfortunately just not enough real estate as thin as they are. Meanwhile, phones are quite a bit thicker & cameras are a huge selling point. Plus, almost everyone has one. It makes sense that if you want higher quality video on your computer, you’d use the other device which has video higher up on the design priority list.

munk-a 3y ago
> There’s unfortunately just not enough real estate as thin as they are. Darn, one piece of marketing BS getting in the way of other marketing BS. Yea, 1080p is plenty high res enough for your work meetings and family calls - but users don't really care about the thin aspect, we care about weight. Getting better key depth on laptops in exchange for a modicum of extra width is a deal I'd take any day of the week... and that'd allow far better cooling engineering and for a few more bulky components.
- afiori 3y ago
  In the context of cameras thickness is of the screen, not of the laptop as a whole
  - OJFord 3y ago
    I think that was just another example, since key depth obviously has nothing to do with camera image sensor resolution.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    There is no physical restriction preventing the screen from getting thicker though. At the end of the day it's a trade-off Apple is taking.
    - 3y ago

audunw 3y ago

Higher resolution would be a complete waste for videoconferencing. Having good pixels and a good lens is far more important than high resolution, especially for video. And resolution often comes at the cost of pixel quality. Small pixels have worse sensitivity, unless you can fit a bigger CMOS sensor. But you’re not going to fit a really good lens on the laptop screen without an annoying bulge anyway, and for 99% of people it would be a waste to spend resources on it anyway. Using the phone is a much better solution. People are likely to have a good camera there with an OK lens anyway.

gsich 3y ago
>But you’re not going to fit a really good lens on the laptop screen without an annoying bulge anyway, and for 99% of people it would be a waste to spend resources on it anyway. It can be done without a bulge. But designers gonna design and make something ugly. Smartphone CMOS sensors are not bigger than the usual stuff in Laptop bezels.