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I recently fell in love with copper pipes. So many advantages, so easy to work with. Quick and nearly fool-proof. I tried introducing some stainless fixtures a

I recently fell in love with copper pipes. So many advantages, so easy to work with. Quick and nearly fool-proof. I tried introducing some stainless fixtures and did not have a good time with it. I'm not a pro by any means but I do all of my own plumbing and gas work in my house. Haven't had one issue out of iron gas pipe or copper water lines. I was actually planning a pex install/replacement, and I have worked with it in my camper, but I changed my mind after doing some more work with copper recently (replaced water pressure regulator). Waaaaay cheaper than messing with pex.

sokoloff 3y ago
People often go to Pex because it's way cheaper than copper. I use copper because the rest of my house supply is copper, soldering pipe is a skill that I have and enjoy using, there's a slight anti-microbial action from copper, and I trust it to last longer than I have years left around. I sure don't do it because it's cheaper, though.
- cperciva 3y ago
  I know some plumbers recommend Pex because it fails catastrophically -- if you run a nail through a pipe you'll know it -- whereas copper can have pinhole leaks which will slowly grow mold all over the inside of your wall without you noticing.
- datavirtue 3y ago
  Straight new install of PEX might be cheaper but I can reuse copper fittings and they cost nearly nothing. Same with the runs of pipe...I can reuse copper without losing length. Just easier to deal with for maintenance.
nrdvana 3y ago
I had a house where a brand new copper line corroded and started leaking 2 years from installation, and I don't mean at joints or anything, I mean the local water just ate right through the wall of the pipe. I switched to Pex and was fairly happy with it. I never did do the research to figure out what was up with the water, but similarly, when I tried inventing my own sump-pump sensor by dipping copper wire into the sump well, it ate the copper wires apart in 3 days. I tried again with stainless rods and discovered that there was about .05 Volt per inch deep I put the sensor, i.e. the stainless rod near the top of the well would be about 2V higher (or lower, don't recall) than the stainless rod that ran to the bottom. Made it kind of annoying to design the circuit.
- amluto 3y ago
  I assume you have a well, not city water? Utilities generally try to adjust their water to be non-corrosive to copper. If I used well water or had another non-city source, I would do my best to keep copper out of the plumbing and I would minimize brass as well. Stainless steel and plastic, please.
- ComputerGuru 3y ago
  Looked in to this seriously for a product some years back. Captured ping pong ball floating on the surface of the water hitting a physical limit switch is the way to go. Otherwise ultrasound.
- rsaxvc 3y ago
  Convenient point for PEX: If copper pipes aren't properly grounded they'll tend to develop pinhole leaks within that timeframe.
  - mips_r4300i 3y ago
    Due to galvanic corrosion / electrolysis?
    - rsaxvc 3y ago
      I'm not a plumber, that's what someone told me once a long time ago. But googling some more, systemic pinhole leakage can also depend on several factors like water cleanliness and pH, with some counties finding grounding doesn't cause pinholing and others finding it does. The subject may be more complicated than my single sentence can capture.
- CrazyPyroLinux 3y ago
  I assume the copper wire was designed as a simple resistive switch? That will cause electrolysis and corrosion. There's an improved design that involves measuring capacitance, which also uses less power. I have a commercial sump pump monitor that works this way.
WalterBright 3y ago
Stainless and copper do not mix. See galvanic corrosion.
- amluto 3y ago
  Stainless steel is just fine in a copper system if it’s not electrically connected to the copper. Even if it is, you are unlikely to have problems unless the wetted area of the stainless steel is comparable to or larger than the copper, in which case you may accelerate corrosion of the copper. You won’t have the problems you would have with galvanized steel. Copper ions leached out of a copper pipe will react with zinc and non-stainless steel and can very quickly degrade under some conditions even without electrical contact. Stainless steel, not so much. (Don’t let rainwater that came from a copper gutter or that ran over treated wood hit a galvanized steel flashing. Really, just don’t use galvanized steel flashings at all.)
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    Stainless in (or near) contact with copper with moisture between them forms a battery, which will corrode them. Metals in a plumbing (i.e. wet) system need to be either isolated from each other or be galvanically compatible. This applies to roofing, too. Nail the flashing down with galvanically compatible nails, or you'll find the flashing all comes loose after a couple years.
    - amluto 3y ago
      > Stainless in (or near) contact with copper with moisture between them forms a battery, which will corrode them. Not really? A battery has two paired half reactions. Something gets oxidized, something gets reduced, and electrons flow through the conductive bits. So if you have some metallic zinc, and you have some copper ions, and you have some metallic copper, and you have electrical contact, zinc will be oxidized, copper ions will be reduced and plate into the copper, and current will flow. Once the zinc is gone, if you had galvanized steel to start with, the iron will oxidize. Now try stainless steel. The half-reaction involving the stainless steel, hmm, doesn’t involve iron — the iron is physically separated from the electrolyte by the passive layer. Chromium? Barely - a tiny bit oxidizes and then it stops. We’re left with 2H+ + 2e- -> H2. Which can happen without the stainless steel too, but with more available surface area, it’s faster. So a lot of stainless steel will accelerate the corrosion of a small amount of copper. But the reverse has little effect. There is apparently a real concern the with H2: some grades of stainless steel are apparently rather susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement.

sokoloff 3y ago

People often go to Pex because it's way cheaper than copper. I use copper because the rest of my house supply is copper, soldering pipe is a skill that I have and enjoy using, there's a slight anti-microbial action from copper, and I trust it to last longer than I have years left around. I sure don't do it because it's cheaper, though.

cperciva 3y ago
I know some plumbers recommend Pex because it fails catastrophically -- if you run a nail through a pipe you'll know it -- whereas copper can have pinhole leaks which will slowly grow mold all over the inside of your wall without you noticing.
datavirtue 3y ago
Straight new install of PEX might be cheaper but I can reuse copper fittings and they cost nearly nothing. Same with the runs of pipe...I can reuse copper without losing length. Just easier to deal with for maintenance.

nrdvana 3y ago

I had a house where a brand new copper line corroded and started leaking 2 years from installation, and I don't mean at joints or anything, I mean the local water just ate right through the wall of the pipe. I switched to Pex and was fairly happy with it. I never did do the research to figure out what was up with the water, but similarly, when I tried inventing my own sump-pump sensor by dipping copper wire into the sump well, it ate the copper wires apart in 3 days. I tried again with stainless rods and discovered that there was about .05 Volt per inch deep I put the sensor, i.e. the stainless rod near the top of the well would be about 2V higher (or lower, don't recall) than the stainless rod that ran to the bottom. Made it kind of annoying to design the circuit.

amluto 3y ago
I assume you have a well, not city water? Utilities generally try to adjust their water to be non-corrosive to copper. If I used well water or had another non-city source, I would do my best to keep copper out of the plumbing and I would minimize brass as well. Stainless steel and plastic, please.
ComputerGuru 3y ago
Looked in to this seriously for a product some years back. Captured ping pong ball floating on the surface of the water hitting a physical limit switch is the way to go. Otherwise ultrasound.
rsaxvc 3y ago
Convenient point for PEX: If copper pipes aren't properly grounded they'll tend to develop pinhole leaks within that timeframe.
- mips_r4300i 3y ago
  Due to galvanic corrosion / electrolysis?
  - rsaxvc 3y ago
    I'm not a plumber, that's what someone told me once a long time ago. But googling some more, systemic pinhole leakage can also depend on several factors like water cleanliness and pH, with some counties finding grounding doesn't cause pinholing and others finding it does. The subject may be more complicated than my single sentence can capture.
CrazyPyroLinux 3y ago
I assume the copper wire was designed as a simple resistive switch? That will cause electrolysis and corrosion. There's an improved design that involves measuring capacitance, which also uses less power. I have a commercial sump pump monitor that works this way.

WalterBright 3y ago

Stainless and copper do not mix. See galvanic corrosion.

amluto 3y ago
Stainless steel is just fine in a copper system if it’s not electrically connected to the copper. Even if it is, you are unlikely to have problems unless the wetted area of the stainless steel is comparable to or larger than the copper, in which case you may accelerate corrosion of the copper. You won’t have the problems you would have with galvanized steel. Copper ions leached out of a copper pipe will react with zinc and non-stainless steel and can very quickly degrade under some conditions even without electrical contact. Stainless steel, not so much. (Don’t let rainwater that came from a copper gutter or that ran over treated wood hit a galvanized steel flashing. Really, just don’t use galvanized steel flashings at all.)
- WalterBright 3y ago
  Stainless in (or near) contact with copper with moisture between them forms a battery, which will corrode them. Metals in a plumbing (i.e. wet) system need to be either isolated from each other or be galvanically compatible. This applies to roofing, too. Nail the flashing down with galvanically compatible nails, or you'll find the flashing all comes loose after a couple years.
  - amluto 3y ago
    > Stainless in (or near) contact with copper with moisture between them forms a battery, which will corrode them. Not really? A battery has two paired half reactions. Something gets oxidized, something gets reduced, and electrons flow through the conductive bits. So if you have some metallic zinc, and you have some copper ions, and you have some metallic copper, and you have electrical contact, zinc will be oxidized, copper ions will be reduced and plate into the copper, and current will flow. Once the zinc is gone, if you had galvanized steel to start with, the iron will oxidize. Now try stainless steel. The half-reaction involving the stainless steel, hmm, doesn’t involve iron — the iron is physically separated from the electrolyte by the passive layer. Chromium? Barely - a tiny bit oxidizes and then it stops. We’re left with 2H+ + 2e- -> H2. Which can happen without the stainless steel too, but with more available surface area, it’s faster. So a lot of stainless steel will accelerate the corrosion of a small amount of copper. But the reverse has little effect. There is apparently a real concern the with H2: some grades of stainless steel are apparently rather susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement.