4 ms·

> 10 bucks a month for a tool that I use multiple times every single day is more than reasonable. This number really varies based on where you live, and there

by sva_ 3y ago

> 10 bucks a month for a tool that I use multiple times every single day is more than reasonable. This number really varies based on where you live, and there is no pricing model that accounts for this. I suppose it is mostly just aimed at Americans.

jchw 3y ago
Some platforms actually do account for this by having special "developing countries" discounts, or some other euphemism like that. IIRC Gumroad is one that supports this.
- somsak2 3y ago
  Pretty funny that when textbook publishers try to do this, people really hate it.
  - jchw 3y ago
    I think most people have a negative kneejerk reaction to asymmetrical pricing when they're the ones paying more. Generally for most things, the cost of delivering a product or service doesn't vary too much based on factors like local living wages, so at the end of the day, you're paying more margin than some other people are. In some cases, maybe your group is flat-out subsidizing other groups. It does seem people's opinions on this are cultural and situational, though. Like many people do not feel particularly upset by a veteran or senior discount. But for textbooks, I think most people feel like the massive margins publishers push are already unreasonable and thus the existence of asymmetric pricing is actually evidence that the margins are larger than necessary. Not sure, though. Most practices that involve some form of discrimination are bound to be controversial in some way. (Even describing them using the term 'discrimination' is sometimes controversial due to the connotations that the word carries, but alas.)
    - paradox460 3y ago
      Some people will even go out of their way to abuse a pricing scheme to get things for far cheaper. See cdkeys selling Xbox live cards from Argentina, for example
  - xigoi 3y ago
    No, we hate that publishers make money out of other people's work.
- g_p 3y ago
  This is an interesting challenge. Part of the difficulty in doing this at early stage (without VC) is that your costs often don't scale in proportion to customer ability to pay. A big chunk of the costs of running Kagi will come from external search indexes - their founder is active here and was pretty open about the impacts on costs when Bing raised their API pricing significantly. That's just one player in the market, but when Bing raises their prices, they don't offer discounts to make it cheaper for developing countries for users downstream. With investment or a significant customer base in full-price countries, it's easier to subsidize a lower price model for developing markets. Trouble is, businesses like Kagi aren't in the business of getting eyeballs today for future monetization (which works fine as justification to grow user stats if someone else is footing the server bills, and is willing to buy future growth). It's certainly an imperfect setup, but regional pricing seems an interesting challenge to make work without relying on external investment.
- fiznool 3y ago
  The term you are looking for is ‘Purchasing Power Parity’. https://www.oecd.org/sdd/purchasingpowerparities-frequentlyaskedquestionsfaqs.htm https://www.oecd.org/sdd/purchasingpowerparities-frequentlya...
- int_19h 3y ago
  The owner has explained previously that they can't really lower it significantly due to baseline costs.
somsak2 3y ago
This is a company, not a charity.
- selcuka 3y ago
  > This is a company, not a charity. By this logic they should increase their prices to $1,000,000/mo. They are not a charity, right? Why would they sell it for a measly $10? The point is, pricing is adjusted to maximise profitability. If lowering the price for a specific market increases your profitability, you would go for it. There is a sweet spot, but it is not the same for every customer. You need segmentation to fully utilise the potential.
  - Mathiciann 3y ago
    Keep in mind that executing the searches has a cost for Kagi. I remember I could see my usage which was about 700 searches per month and which costed ~8$ I think. My subscription was 10$ so 2$ would go to pay their devs and to R&D. So they can't really go lower then 10$ for specific markets.
    - selcuka 3y ago
      Fair point, but their own estimate is about 300 searches for the average user. You are probably not an average user.
carlosjobim 3y ago
>This number really varies based on where you live No, it varies based on who you are. Even poor countries are full of rich people. They are usually part of the reason why their countries are poor.
- sva_ 3y ago
  Nonsense. If you live in a wealthier country with higher average income, then it will matter less who you are.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    I suggest you travel and see the world, it's a lot different than what you might have been told.
willisjs 3y ago
There is a hard price floor. They have to pay the Bing/Google search API costs.

by sva_ 3y ago

jchw 3y ago

Some platforms actually do account for this by having special "developing countries" discounts, or some other euphemism like that. IIRC Gumroad is one that supports this.

somsak2 3y ago
Pretty funny that when textbook publishers try to do this, people really hate it.
- jchw 3y ago
  I think most people have a negative kneejerk reaction to asymmetrical pricing when they're the ones paying more. Generally for most things, the cost of delivering a product or service doesn't vary too much based on factors like local living wages, so at the end of the day, you're paying more margin than some other people are. In some cases, maybe your group is flat-out subsidizing other groups. It does seem people's opinions on this are cultural and situational, though. Like many people do not feel particularly upset by a veteran or senior discount. But for textbooks, I think most people feel like the massive margins publishers push are already unreasonable and thus the existence of asymmetric pricing is actually evidence that the margins are larger than necessary. Not sure, though. Most practices that involve some form of discrimination are bound to be controversial in some way. (Even describing them using the term 'discrimination' is sometimes controversial due to the connotations that the word carries, but alas.)
  - paradox460 3y ago
    Some people will even go out of their way to abuse a pricing scheme to get things for far cheaper. See cdkeys selling Xbox live cards from Argentina, for example
- xigoi 3y ago
  No, we hate that publishers make money out of other people's work.
g_p 3y ago
This is an interesting challenge. Part of the difficulty in doing this at early stage (without VC) is that your costs often don't scale in proportion to customer ability to pay. A big chunk of the costs of running Kagi will come from external search indexes - their founder is active here and was pretty open about the impacts on costs when Bing raised their API pricing significantly. That's just one player in the market, but when Bing raises their prices, they don't offer discounts to make it cheaper for developing countries for users downstream. With investment or a significant customer base in full-price countries, it's easier to subsidize a lower price model for developing markets. Trouble is, businesses like Kagi aren't in the business of getting eyeballs today for future monetization (which works fine as justification to grow user stats if someone else is footing the server bills, and is willing to buy future growth). It's certainly an imperfect setup, but regional pricing seems an interesting challenge to make work without relying on external investment.
fiznool 3y ago
The term you are looking for is ‘Purchasing Power Parity’. https://www.oecd.org/sdd/purchasingpowerparities-frequentlyaskedquestionsfaqs.htm https://www.oecd.org/sdd/purchasingpowerparities-frequentlya...
int_19h 3y ago
The owner has explained previously that they can't really lower it significantly due to baseline costs.

somsak2 3y ago

This is a company, not a charity.

selcuka 3y ago
> This is a company, not a charity. By this logic they should increase their prices to $1,000,000/mo. They are not a charity, right? Why would they sell it for a measly $10? The point is, pricing is adjusted to maximise profitability. If lowering the price for a specific market increases your profitability, you would go for it. There is a sweet spot, but it is not the same for every customer. You need segmentation to fully utilise the potential.
- Mathiciann 3y ago
  Keep in mind that executing the searches has a cost for Kagi. I remember I could see my usage which was about 700 searches per month and which costed ~8$ I think. My subscription was 10$ so 2$ would go to pay their devs and to R&D. So they can't really go lower then 10$ for specific markets.
  - selcuka 3y ago
    Fair point, but their own estimate is about 300 searches for the average user. You are probably not an average user.

carlosjobim 3y ago

>This number really varies based on where you live No, it varies based on who you are. Even poor countries are full of rich people. They are usually part of the reason why their countries are poor.

sva_ 3y ago
Nonsense. If you live in a wealthier country with higher average income, then it will matter less who you are.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  I suggest you travel and see the world, it's a lot different than what you might have been told.

willisjs 3y ago

There is a hard price floor. They have to pay the Bing/Google search API costs.