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I like the statement they made on their jobs page: Core Front-end Team Passion for creating delightful and swift user interfaces. Proficiency in HTML, CSS, a

I like the statement they made on their jobs page: Core Front-end Team Passion for creating delightful and swift user interfaces. Proficiency in HTML, CSS, and _an understanding that JavaScript can be used sparingly to enhance, not create, product experiences._ Ability to prototype rapidly. Fun fact: At Kagi, we prioritize speed, to the point where *all functionalities of Kagi Search (except Stripe checkout and Maps) work perfectly without JavaScript*. We see JavaScript as a tool to enhance the UX, not create it.

threatofrain 3y ago
Ah, their backend is in Crystal!
zelphirkalt 3y ago
That frontend team statement alone makes it almost worth switching and thereby supporting their work. It is rare these days to hear such wise words.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
autoexec 3y ago
I like the sound of it, but I do notice that the link https://kagi.com/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2uU4VjwQbUD3JMGg https://kagi.com/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2... which someone posted elsewhere in this discussion as an example doesn't work with JS disabled.
- jorams 3y ago
  It should work without JS. It even works in eww (in Emacs). Looking at the source of the page, there's a redirect (meta http-equiv="refresh") wrapped in a <noscript>-tag to the same URL but with "/html" before the path.[1]. It seems the browser you tried doesn't handle that. [1]: https://kagi.com/html/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2uU4VjwQbUD3JMGg https://kagi.com/html/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd...
  - autoexec 3y ago
    You're right! The browser doesn't do redirects by default. looks like I'll need more coffee...
tills13 3y ago
In my opinion, in not using JavaScript they are missing out on a really nice DX. This is the kind of app that could be highly optimized _despite_ using React or something similar. Knee-capping your hiring to Make A Point (tm) is silly.
- james2doyle 3y ago
  Nice DX at the cost of UX. The current state of web development has been ruined by putting developer experience over user experience. A great example that was shared on HN a few days ago: https://ericwbailey.website/published/modern-health-frameworks-performance-and-harm/ https://ericwbailey.website/published/modern-health-framewor... This person couldn't use the site. But at least the developer got to see red squiggles when they didn't format their object properly! If you see "not using JS as much" as knee-capping your hiring, then you are putting your personal preferences ahead of what is good for the users.
  - wonnage 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - reywood 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - solardev 3y ago
    Why does that site even need JS? It looks just like an article.
- callalex 3y ago
  Server side rendering in no way guarantees a bad DX. Such a statement is narrow-minded.
- austinjp 3y ago
  "Highly optimised" depends what you're optimising for.
- 3y ago
tambourine_man 3y ago
I already liked the domain name from the Mac shareware days of yore and I had sympathy for the business model. But this… they might be winning my heart.
muhammadusman 3y ago
makes me wanna apply for a job there!
tekknik 3y ago
> Fun fact: At Kagi, we prioritize speed, to the point where all functionalities of Kagi Search (except Stripe checkout and Maps) work perfectly without JavaScript. We see JavaScript as a tool to enhance the UX, not create it. This doesn’t matter to me at all. When will people quit trying to hold the web back for their own self served interests? If supporting Kagi means supporting this idea that javascript should die, I doubt I’ll sign up.
- gkbrk 3y ago
  Where in that quote does it say that "Javascript should die"? They're just talking about using progressive enhancement, which is a common recommendation for making web applications faster, more reliable, more accessible and less fragile. If you think not making the entire UI and replicating browser functionality with custom JS code is "holding the web back", sorry to inform you but you might be holding the web back.
- bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
  It doesn't really matter whether a site uses JavaScript or not, but empirically, sites that insist on being almost all HTML and CSS work infinitely better — faster, smoother, adhering to standard idioms — than sites that rely heavily on JS. There are some exceptions to this, of course, but by and large it's a pretty good heuristic.
- wpm 3y ago
  If the future of the web is a trend towards more and more overcomplicated, buggy JS garbage, I’m quite happy to hold it back. If you think my opinion wasn’t born out of experience with the supposed future of the web, but rather some unjustified bias against the language or something, I dunno what to tell you.
- afavour 3y ago
  Hyperbole much? Nowhere does it say JavaScript should “die”. Today’s web is overflowing with unnecessary complication from trying to fit absolutely every type of content through a React shaped hole. It leads to a worse experience for everyone except the developer making the site, who gets to marvel at how fast they’re shipping new features.

threatofrain 3y ago

Ah, their backend is in Crystal!

zelphirkalt 3y ago

That frontend team statement alone makes it almost worth switching and thereby supporting their work. It is rare these days to hear such wise words.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

autoexec 3y ago

I like the sound of it, but I do notice that the link https://kagi.com/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2uU4VjwQbUD3JMGg https://kagi.com/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2... which someone posted elsewhere in this discussion as an example doesn't work with JS disabled.

jorams 3y ago
It should work without JS. It even works in eww (in Emacs). Looking at the source of the page, there's a redirect (meta http-equiv="refresh") wrapped in a <noscript>-tag to the same URL but with "/html" before the path.[1]. It seems the browser you tried doesn't handle that. [1]: https://kagi.com/html/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2uU4VjwQbUD3JMGg https://kagi.com/html/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd...
- autoexec 3y ago
  You're right! The browser doesn't do redirects by default. looks like I'll need more coffee...

tills13 3y ago

In my opinion, in not using JavaScript they are missing out on a really nice DX. This is the kind of app that could be highly optimized _despite_ using React or something similar. Knee-capping your hiring to Make A Point (tm) is silly.

james2doyle 3y ago
Nice DX at the cost of UX. The current state of web development has been ruined by putting developer experience over user experience. A great example that was shared on HN a few days ago: https://ericwbailey.website/published/modern-health-frameworks-performance-and-harm/ https://ericwbailey.website/published/modern-health-framewor... This person couldn't use the site. But at least the developer got to see red squiggles when they didn't format their object properly! If you see "not using JS as much" as knee-capping your hiring, then you are putting your personal preferences ahead of what is good for the users.
- wonnage 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - reywood 3y ago
    [flagged]
- solardev 3y ago
  Why does that site even need JS? It looks just like an article.
callalex 3y ago
Server side rendering in no way guarantees a bad DX. Such a statement is narrow-minded.
austinjp 3y ago
"Highly optimised" depends what you're optimising for.
3y ago

tambourine_man 3y ago

I already liked the domain name from the Mac shareware days of yore and I had sympathy for the business model. But this… they might be winning my heart.

muhammadusman 3y ago

makes me wanna apply for a job there!

tekknik 3y ago

> Fun fact: At Kagi, we prioritize speed, to the point where all functionalities of Kagi Search (except Stripe checkout and Maps) work perfectly without JavaScript. We see JavaScript as a tool to enhance the UX, not create it. This doesn’t matter to me at all. When will people quit trying to hold the web back for their own self served interests? If supporting Kagi means supporting this idea that javascript should die, I doubt I’ll sign up.

gkbrk 3y ago
Where in that quote does it say that "Javascript should die"? They're just talking about using progressive enhancement, which is a common recommendation for making web applications faster, more reliable, more accessible and less fragile. If you think not making the entire UI and replicating browser functionality with custom JS code is "holding the web back", sorry to inform you but you might be holding the web back.
bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
It doesn't really matter whether a site uses JavaScript or not, but empirically, sites that insist on being almost all HTML and CSS work infinitely better — faster, smoother, adhering to standard idioms — than sites that rely heavily on JS. There are some exceptions to this, of course, but by and large it's a pretty good heuristic.
wpm 3y ago
If the future of the web is a trend towards more and more overcomplicated, buggy JS garbage, I’m quite happy to hold it back. If you think my opinion wasn’t born out of experience with the supposed future of the web, but rather some unjustified bias against the language or something, I dunno what to tell you.
afavour 3y ago
Hyperbole much? Nowhere does it say JavaScript should “die”. Today’s web is overflowing with unnecessary complication from trying to fit absolutely every type of content through a React shaped hole. It leads to a worse experience for everyone except the developer making the site, who gets to marvel at how fast they’re shipping new features.