4 ms·

This is a fun idea, are there any browsers that hide the VM from end users so it looks and feels like a browser instance but is actually a tunnel into a sandbox

by bennyg 3y ago

This is a fun idea, are there any browsers that hide the VM from end users so it looks and feels like a browser instance but is actually a tunnel into a sandboxed VM that’s being painted to?

mminer237 3y ago
The problem is that browsers are the biggest attack vectors but also the most valuable targets. Getting a user's email password or cookie is probably the most damaging thing they could get unless you're the type to buy cryptocurrencies.
- hiatus 3y ago
  Not your bank? Email and bank login should be sufficient to change mfa and other settings and lock you out long enough to have forged checks drawn and cashed against your account.
Chabsff 3y ago
That's kinda-sorta what they all do already. Not full OS-level VM abstraction, but surprisingly close to it. Exploits like this need to be paired with sandbox-escaping in order to do damage beyond the current browsing session (which VMs wouldn't help with in the first place). And the distinction between sandbox-escaping and VM-escaping is rather thin.
- Syonyk 3y ago
  > And the distinction between sandbox-escaping and VM-escaping is rather thin. Eh, I think it's a good bit harder to escape a HVM isolated virtual machine than a sandbox. At least, I'm not aware of many cross-Xen VM escapes.
  - lmm 3y ago
    There used to be dozens of them at any given time; maybe they're a bit rarer now that cloud providers have been banging on them for a while.
  - taway1237 3y ago
    There's a huge difference. Browser sandboxes are not "real" VMs and share a kernel. And in case of Chromium it's enough to read a few bytes from another process (token) to escape.
    - nolist_policy 3y ago
      Can you elaborate on that? What do tokens have to do with breaking out of a sandbox?
  - Chabsff 3y ago
    Yes, I should have added that I'm referring specifically to the scenario OP is suggesting, which would require a host <-> client IPC channel, opening up the VM to similar attack vectors to a sandbox.
tech234a 3y ago
This exists as an option for Microsoft Edge on Windows: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/microsoft-edge-security-windows-defender-application-guard https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/microsoft-edge-...

by bennyg 3y ago

This is a fun idea, are there any browsers that hide the VM from end users so it looks and feels like a browser instance but is actually a tunnel into a sandboxed VM that’s being painted to?

mminer237 3y ago

The problem is that browsers are the biggest attack vectors but also the most valuable targets. Getting a user's email password or cookie is probably the most damaging thing they could get unless you're the type to buy cryptocurrencies.

hiatus 3y ago
Not your bank? Email and bank login should be sufficient to change mfa and other settings and lock you out long enough to have forged checks drawn and cashed against your account.

Chabsff 3y ago

That's kinda-sorta what they all do already. Not full OS-level VM abstraction, but surprisingly close to it. Exploits like this need to be paired with sandbox-escaping in order to do damage beyond the current browsing session (which VMs wouldn't help with in the first place). And the distinction between sandbox-escaping and VM-escaping is rather thin.

Syonyk 3y ago
> And the distinction between sandbox-escaping and VM-escaping is rather thin. Eh, I think it's a good bit harder to escape a HVM isolated virtual machine than a sandbox. At least, I'm not aware of many cross-Xen VM escapes.
- lmm 3y ago
  There used to be dozens of them at any given time; maybe they're a bit rarer now that cloud providers have been banging on them for a while.
- taway1237 3y ago
  There's a huge difference. Browser sandboxes are not "real" VMs and share a kernel. And in case of Chromium it's enough to read a few bytes from another process (token) to escape.
  - nolist_policy 3y ago
    Can you elaborate on that? What do tokens have to do with breaking out of a sandbox?
- Chabsff 3y ago
  Yes, I should have added that I'm referring specifically to the scenario OP is suggesting, which would require a host <-> client IPC channel, opening up the VM to similar attack vectors to a sandbox.

tech234a 3y ago

This exists as an option for Microsoft Edge on Windows: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/microsoft-edge-security-windows-defender-application-guard https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/microsoft-edge-...