6 ms·

Does anyone know the the risk is for electronics hobbyist?

by djmips 3y ago

weaksauce 3y ago
considering almost all of this is in poor countries i'd say you are low risk if you solder infrequently and always have good airflow. that said there's no safe level of lead so wear a properly fitted p100 respirator if you want to be as safe as you can be.
Syonyk 3y ago
Don't lick your boards, wash your hands before you eat, and if you're really concerned, wear gloves while handling solder wire. The smoke from soldering isn't lead - a soldering tip is (if it's not literally glowing into the yellows) far, far too cold to vaporize any lead from solder - you need to be 1500+C for it to start being a problem, and you're not soldering that high. It's rosin smoke, and if you're in doubt, leave your iron in a puddle of solder - it shouldn't smoke, it should just sit there liquid after the initial rosin has burned off. The rosin smoke isn't great, but it's not a lead toxicity issue. Your concern is lead on your hands from the wire, and then eating afterwards without a good scrubbing. I don't think it will penetrate your skin, but you could always wear a pair of gloves if you wanted. There are some shooting sports soaps that are designed to help really rip any lead off your hands, so you might use one of those if you're concerned.
- teawrecks 3y ago
  Also, afaik, there's no reason for hobbyists to not always use lead-free solder. But of course that doesn't mean something you're taking apart used lead free.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Repairing an old device that used leaded solder is a reason to use leaded solder (even new leaded solder during the repair). I don't even use the same tips across leaded and lead-free solder.
  - Gigachad 3y ago
    I think pretty much all consumer electronics uses lead free solder for the last 10+ years. The reason hobby users tend to use leaded is it's much easier to work with and they don't care about health or the environment that much.
  - TheBigSalad 3y ago
    The leaded solder melts easier than non-leaded. This is good because you are way less likely to burn off traces or melt the board using a lower temperature iron. I only use leaded solder because I suck at soldering.
- frankus 3y ago
  A few years back spent a lot of time stripping lead paint using a heat gun and IR emitter thing ("silent paint remover"). It was definitely smelly, but I convinced myself that the temperatures were far too low to vaporize lead. But in the back of my mind I always wondered if there was an equivalent of a eutectic mixture for the liquid/vapor phase transition.
  - alwayslikethis 3y ago
    There are. They are usually called azeotropes. For example water and ethanol form an azeotrope, though the difference isn't as drastic as with metals.
mschuster91 3y ago
Unless you're dealing with electronics made prior to 2006, almost all of what you'll be soldering with is lead-free. Thank the EU's RoHS directive for that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Subst...
- rkagerer 3y ago
  There's a lot of argument that lead-free solder isn't as good (or easy to use) and several hobbyists still use leaded solder.
  - Syonyk 3y ago
    Have you ever tried the lead free stuff as compared to a good 60/40 or something like that? It's horrid to use. And the lead-free stuff is far worse in manufactured equipment - how many devices have failed early due to BGA solder joint failures that basically didn't exist before RoHS requirements? I think the nVidia 8600M issues were traced to that, and plenty of other BGA equipment since 2006 or so has failed rather early.
    - CarVac 3y ago
      It's only horrid when the flux it comes with is crap. Most people try the cheapest garbage they can find on Amazon, and that's the problem. I use Chipquik SAC305 with water-washable no-clean flux core and I actually prefer working with it over Sn63Pb37.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      Yep, I was around for that shitshow with two laptops. Soldergate was annoying but to be honest there haven't been any similar issues at scale I'm aware of, as the issue was identified and fixed.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Solder comes in many different alloys. Some of them are really terrible. However some of the better ones are pretty good. Spend some money to find a good one. If you can find a manufacture they often have a lot of data and will tell you which is good for what. Often bad solder is great for some purpose, but that purpose may be something not useful for you (you probably don't need the maximum strength joints as one example), cheap while still working is useful at industrial scales, but odds are $75 of the most expensive solder will outlast your lifetime so why cheap out?
snuxoll 3y ago
I typically use lead-free solder unless I'm dealing with some annoyingly massive thermal mass like a joystick anchor, but I use the same rule whenever I'm dealing with solder, fishing weights, and ammo: wash hands before they go near my face after handling lead products. Inorganic lead is not readily absorbed through the skin (that's not to say it cannot be, or never is), so generally speaking as long as you avoid ingesting it (hence wash hands after handling it) there's little to worry about.
mrob 3y ago
Soldering doesn't get hot enough to make significant lead fumes (although flux fumes are also bad to breathe). The main risk from lead solder is from cleaning your soldering iron. Both the common techniques (damp sponge and brass wool) make many tiny balls of solder. They can be hard to see, and because they're round and dense, they can travel much farther than you expect by rolling and bouncing. They can get caught in clothing, and from there potentially fall into food. I don't personally use lead solder for this reason. If you have a good temperature-controlled iron then SAC305 is almost as easy to use.
CarVac 3y ago
None if you use quality lead-free solder.
- tpmx 3y ago
  Unfortunately lead-free solder is a lot harder to solder with; it just doesn't flow as nicely. Companies doing it in an automated way have long figured it out though. This is why hobbyists are often still using leaded solder, particularly outside of the EU. But also in the EU, because it just flows so damned nice.
  - CarVac 3y ago
    That's not actually true though. I find SAC305 to wick into joints faster than leaded solder does, provided you have quality flux in the solder. If you get the cheapest lead-free solder you can find on Amazon it will be bad. Doubly so if you have a non-temperature-controlled soldering iron. Too cold, and it won't melt effectively. Too hot, and exposed metal will oxidize rapidly.
    - djmips 3y ago
      What is your favoured temperature for let's say through hole DIP connections?
      - CarVac 3y ago
        650°F or 340°C. Works beautifully with SAC305.
    - tpmx 3y ago
      provided you have quality flux in the solder which you often don't need with leaded solder.
      - CarVac 3y ago
        Yes, you need slightly better flux to avoid using toxic heavy metal in your hobby electronics.

Does anyone know the the risk is for electronics hobbyist?

by djmips 3y ago

Does anyone know the the risk is for electronics hobbyist?

considering almost all of this is in poor countries i'd say you are low risk if you solder infrequently and always have good airflow. that said there's no safe level of lead so wear a properly fitted p100 respirator if you want to be as safe as you can be.

Syonyk 3y ago

Don't lick your boards, wash your hands before you eat, and if you're really concerned, wear gloves while handling solder wire. The smoke from soldering isn't lead - a soldering tip is (if it's not literally glowing into the yellows) far, far too cold to vaporize any lead from solder - you need to be 1500+C for it to start being a problem, and you're not soldering that high. It's rosin smoke, and if you're in doubt, leave your iron in a puddle of solder - it shouldn't smoke, it should just sit there liquid after the initial rosin has burned off. The rosin smoke isn't great, but it's not a lead toxicity issue. Your concern is lead on your hands from the wire, and then eating afterwards without a good scrubbing. I don't think it will penetrate your skin, but you could always wear a pair of gloves if you wanted. There are some shooting sports soaps that are designed to help really rip any lead off your hands, so you might use one of those if you're concerned.

teawrecks 3y ago
Also, afaik, there's no reason for hobbyists to not always use lead-free solder. But of course that doesn't mean something you're taking apart used lead free.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Repairing an old device that used leaded solder is a reason to use leaded solder (even new leaded solder during the repair). I don't even use the same tips across leaded and lead-free solder.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  I think pretty much all consumer electronics uses lead free solder for the last 10+ years. The reason hobby users tend to use leaded is it's much easier to work with and they don't care about health or the environment that much.
- TheBigSalad 3y ago
  The leaded solder melts easier than non-leaded. This is good because you are way less likely to burn off traces or melt the board using a lower temperature iron. I only use leaded solder because I suck at soldering.
frankus 3y ago
A few years back spent a lot of time stripping lead paint using a heat gun and IR emitter thing ("silent paint remover"). It was definitely smelly, but I convinced myself that the temperatures were far too low to vaporize lead. But in the back of my mind I always wondered if there was an equivalent of a eutectic mixture for the liquid/vapor phase transition.
- alwayslikethis 3y ago
  There are. They are usually called azeotropes. For example water and ethanol form an azeotrope, though the difference isn't as drastic as with metals.

mschuster91 3y ago

Unless you're dealing with electronics made prior to 2006, almost all of what you'll be soldering with is lead-free. Thank the EU's RoHS directive for that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Subst...

rkagerer 3y ago
There's a lot of argument that lead-free solder isn't as good (or easy to use) and several hobbyists still use leaded solder.
- Syonyk 3y ago
  Have you ever tried the lead free stuff as compared to a good 60/40 or something like that? It's horrid to use. And the lead-free stuff is far worse in manufactured equipment - how many devices have failed early due to BGA solder joint failures that basically didn't exist before RoHS requirements? I think the nVidia 8600M issues were traced to that, and plenty of other BGA equipment since 2006 or so has failed rather early.
  - CarVac 3y ago
    It's only horrid when the flux it comes with is crap. Most people try the cheapest garbage they can find on Amazon, and that's the problem. I use Chipquik SAC305 with water-washable no-clean flux core and I actually prefer working with it over Sn63Pb37.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Yep, I was around for that shitshow with two laptops. Soldergate was annoying but to be honest there haven't been any similar issues at scale I'm aware of, as the issue was identified and fixed.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Solder comes in many different alloys. Some of them are really terrible. However some of the better ones are pretty good. Spend some money to find a good one. If you can find a manufacture they often have a lot of data and will tell you which is good for what. Often bad solder is great for some purpose, but that purpose may be something not useful for you (you probably don't need the maximum strength joints as one example), cheap while still working is useful at industrial scales, but odds are $75 of the most expensive solder will outlast your lifetime so why cheap out?

snuxoll 3y ago

I typically use lead-free solder unless I'm dealing with some annoyingly massive thermal mass like a joystick anchor, but I use the same rule whenever I'm dealing with solder, fishing weights, and ammo: wash hands before they go near my face after handling lead products. Inorganic lead is not readily absorbed through the skin (that's not to say it cannot be, or never is), so generally speaking as long as you avoid ingesting it (hence wash hands after handling it) there's little to worry about.

mrob 3y ago

Soldering doesn't get hot enough to make significant lead fumes (although flux fumes are also bad to breathe). The main risk from lead solder is from cleaning your soldering iron. Both the common techniques (damp sponge and brass wool) make many tiny balls of solder. They can be hard to see, and because they're round and dense, they can travel much farther than you expect by rolling and bouncing. They can get caught in clothing, and from there potentially fall into food. I don't personally use lead solder for this reason. If you have a good temperature-controlled iron then SAC305 is almost as easy to use.

CarVac 3y ago

None if you use quality lead-free solder.

tpmx 3y ago
Unfortunately lead-free solder is a lot harder to solder with; it just doesn't flow as nicely. Companies doing it in an automated way have long figured it out though. This is why hobbyists are often still using leaded solder, particularly outside of the EU. But also in the EU, because it just flows so damned nice.
- CarVac 3y ago
  That's not actually true though. I find SAC305 to wick into joints faster than leaded solder does, provided you have quality flux in the solder. If you get the cheapest lead-free solder you can find on Amazon it will be bad. Doubly so if you have a non-temperature-controlled soldering iron. Too cold, and it won't melt effectively. Too hot, and exposed metal will oxidize rapidly.
  - djmips 3y ago
    What is your favoured temperature for let's say through hole DIP connections?
    - CarVac 3y ago
      650°F or 340°C. Works beautifully with SAC305.
  - tpmx 3y ago
    provided you have quality flux in the solder which you often don't need with leaded solder.
    - CarVac 3y ago
      Yes, you need slightly better flux to avoid using toxic heavy metal in your hobby electronics.