5 ms·

I mean, there's a reason most FOSS software licenses contain some variation of "THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED 'AS IS' AND WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES.

I mean, there's a reason most FOSS software licenses contain some variation of "THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED 'AS IS' AND WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES..."

numbsafari 3y ago
That's all software.
- l33t7332273 3y ago
  I don’t think it is. If you pay for software it generally comes with some warranty and guarantee of fitness for purpose.
  - thesuperbigfrog 3y ago
    >> If you pay for software it generally comes with some warranty and guarantee of fitness for purpose. Generally it does not: Microsoft Windows EULA states: "Disclaimer. Neither Microsoft, nor the device manufacturer or installer, gives any other express warranties, guarantees, or conditions. Microsoft and the device manufacturer and installer exclude all implied warranties and conditions, including those of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, and non-infringement. If your local law does not allow the exclusion of implied warranties, then any implied warranties, guarantees, or conditions last only during the term of the limited warranty and are limited as much as your local law allows. If your local law requires a longer limited warranty term, despite this agreement, then that longer term will apply, but you can recover only the remedies this agreement allows." Source: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/U... Oracle EULA states: "Disclaimer of Warranties; Limitation of Liability THE PROGRAMS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. ORACLE FURTHER DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS AND IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NONINFRINGEMENT." Source: https://www.oracle.com/downloads/licenses/standard-license.html https://www.oracle.com/downloads/licenses/standard-license.h...
    - inetknght 3y ago
      > Generally it does not: And that's a real damn shame, too. If only we had actual Engineering certifications for software engineers. Things would be a lot more expensive... but perhaps they'd be a lot more consumer-friendly too.
      - pgeorgi 3y ago
        > If only we had actual Engineering certifications for software engineers. See Canada: Software Engineers are called Software Developers there, problem solved.
        mardifoufs 3y ago
        No, we have actual software engineering degrees. So there are software engineers here too.
        xmcqdpt2 3y ago
        Ton nom d'utilisateur ne me rappelle pas de souvenirs parce que j'ai tout oublié de ces mardis là
        mardifoufs 3y ago
        Hahahahaha I wish je pouvais oublier quelques mardi moi. Au moins c'était pas des jeudi :)
      - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
        Microsoft doesn't provide any guarantee of fitness for use, and you blame that on software engineers being uncertified? Blame it on Microsoft! (Now, there might be an argument you could make that, if software engineers had actual certifications, they would have the leverage to push back against Microsoft management and say "no, we're not going to ship that". But I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work, at least not at this stage of the game. Microsoft would just find coders in India or the Philippines or somewhere to implement it where there are no such professional regulations. No, when a company the size of Microsoft does something like that, the problem is not with the individual contributors.)
  - nobody9999 3y ago
    >If you pay for software it generally comes with some warranty and guarantee of fitness for purpose. Unless it's some sort of bespoke software with a detailed contract (the details of which aren't available), I don't believe that's true. Every single software license (as well as websites and other services) I've ever read (over the past 30 years or so) has had some similar disclaimer. Would you provide an example that doesn't follow that pattern?
- NegativeK 3y ago
  That's absolutely not all software.

I mean, there's a reason most FOSS software licenses contain some variation of "THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED 'AS IS' AND WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES..."

numbsafari 3y ago

That's all software.

l33t7332273 3y ago
I don’t think it is. If you pay for software it generally comes with some warranty and guarantee of fitness for purpose.
- thesuperbigfrog 3y ago
  >> If you pay for software it generally comes with some warranty and guarantee of fitness for purpose. Generally it does not: Microsoft Windows EULA states: "Disclaimer. Neither Microsoft, nor the device manufacturer or installer, gives any other express warranties, guarantees, or conditions. Microsoft and the device manufacturer and installer exclude all implied warranties and conditions, including those of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, and non-infringement. If your local law does not allow the exclusion of implied warranties, then any implied warranties, guarantees, or conditions last only during the term of the limited warranty and are limited as much as your local law allows. If your local law requires a longer limited warranty term, despite this agreement, then that longer term will apply, but you can recover only the remedies this agreement allows." Source: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/U... Oracle EULA states: "Disclaimer of Warranties; Limitation of Liability THE PROGRAMS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. ORACLE FURTHER DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS AND IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NONINFRINGEMENT." Source: https://www.oracle.com/downloads/licenses/standard-license.html https://www.oracle.com/downloads/licenses/standard-license.h...
  - inetknght 3y ago
    > Generally it does not: And that's a real damn shame, too. If only we had actual Engineering certifications for software engineers. Things would be a lot more expensive... but perhaps they'd be a lot more consumer-friendly too.
    - pgeorgi 3y ago
      > If only we had actual Engineering certifications for software engineers. See Canada: Software Engineers are called Software Developers there, problem solved.
      - mardifoufs 3y ago
        No, we have actual software engineering degrees. So there are software engineers here too.
        xmcqdpt2 3y ago
        Ton nom d'utilisateur ne me rappelle pas de souvenirs parce que j'ai tout oublié de ces mardis là
        mardifoufs 3y ago
        Hahahahaha I wish je pouvais oublier quelques mardi moi. Au moins c'était pas des jeudi :)
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      Microsoft doesn't provide any guarantee of fitness for use, and you blame that on software engineers being uncertified? Blame it on Microsoft! (Now, there might be an argument you could make that, if software engineers had actual certifications, they would have the leverage to push back against Microsoft management and say "no, we're not going to ship that". But I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work, at least not at this stage of the game. Microsoft would just find coders in India or the Philippines or somewhere to implement it where there are no such professional regulations. No, when a company the size of Microsoft does something like that, the problem is not with the individual contributors.)
- nobody9999 3y ago
  >If you pay for software it generally comes with some warranty and guarantee of fitness for purpose. Unless it's some sort of bespoke software with a detailed contract (the details of which aren't available), I don't believe that's true. Every single software license (as well as websites and other services) I've ever read (over the past 30 years or so) has had some similar disclaimer. Would you provide an example that doesn't follow that pattern?
NegativeK 3y ago
That's absolutely not all software.