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> are you wanting a plastic band atop the laptop closing screen, to get a cellular capable antenna in an otherwise metal body? I'm almost certain Apple's world

by giobox 3y ago

> are you wanting a plastic band atop the laptop closing screen, to get a cellular capable antenna in an otherwise metal body? I'm almost certain Apple's world class hardware team can integrate a cellular antenna to an aluminum laptop in a way that is visually pleasing, yes. This isn't some insurmountable problem we are positing here.

mrguyorama 3y ago
I mean, that same hardware team designed a fundamentally flawed keyboard to shave like a millimeter from the laptop height.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  that's the industrial design group, which was entirely distinct from the rf hardware world.
jjtheblunt 3y ago
it probably would help if you'd listen to a person from the world class hardware team in question who worked in exactly this world for years, spanning all the devices discussed. that person might have strongly insinuated the law of nature challenges constraining propagation of RF at widely varying frequencies as they are paired with the esthetics challenges from a different group, if you noticed.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- musicale 3y ago
  The iPad itself and competing MacBook/MacBook Pro-like aluminum laptops from other vendors (Dell, HP, etc.) are existence proofs.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    You didn’t read the discussion of the cellular ipad having the plastic band, or that prioritizing no plastic band is a problem if you want antennas capable for useful cellular reliability
    - giobox 3y ago
      No, the cellular iPad and other devices are indeed proof positive. The exact same cellular window solution could be applied in a redesign of the MacBook. No one is disputing aluminium blocks radio waves - the dispute is your constant argument it can’t be done because it would require a giant RF window - there is no reason a future design can’t neatly incorporate an antenna system, just like it has been done on many other aluminium devices - including iPads, iPhones and Apple Watches. Having built 5G systems for hobbyist computer boards (Pi etc), the antenna required is not so very large either. A MacBook is not and has never been a seamless block of aluminium - there are plenty of design choices to be made to help hide or minimise any antennas.
      - jjtheblunt 3y ago
        Yes it’s possible IF the case is changed. Bear in mind different bands (as cellular ios devices support) can force a different antenna geometry than a single band (regardless of coding schemes).
    - jetanoia 3y ago
      Your “plastic band” argument- indeed, most of your arguments on this- fails to acknowledge the pleasant reality of the ipad pro’s. My 2020 ipad pro 11” does not have that unsightly plastic band, nor the iphone 15 pro. As far as aesthetic elements, these enclosures appear essentially as metal and glass, an appearance not markedly different than existing macbook appearances. Even the iphone mini 13 manages to fit effective cellular arrays in its compact form sans the big plastic bands on those ipads you mention. And despite its diminutive size, the mini 13 can still manage a reliable call over cellular for hours at a time. With the greater real estate offered by the macBook form factor, there are broader options for effective antenna arrays and also their power supply versus phones and tablets.

by giobox 3y ago

mrguyorama 3y ago

I mean, that same hardware team designed a fundamentally flawed keyboard to shave like a millimeter from the laptop height.

jjtheblunt 3y ago
that's the industrial design group, which was entirely distinct from the rf hardware world.

jjtheblunt 3y ago

it probably would help if you'd listen to a person from the world class hardware team in question who worked in exactly this world for years, spanning all the devices discussed. that person might have strongly insinuated the law of nature challenges constraining propagation of RF at widely varying frequencies as they are paired with the esthetics challenges from a different group, if you noticed.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
musicale 3y ago
The iPad itself and competing MacBook/MacBook Pro-like aluminum laptops from other vendors (Dell, HP, etc.) are existence proofs.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  You didn’t read the discussion of the cellular ipad having the plastic band, or that prioritizing no plastic band is a problem if you want antennas capable for useful cellular reliability
  - giobox 3y ago
    No, the cellular iPad and other devices are indeed proof positive. The exact same cellular window solution could be applied in a redesign of the MacBook. No one is disputing aluminium blocks radio waves - the dispute is your constant argument it can’t be done because it would require a giant RF window - there is no reason a future design can’t neatly incorporate an antenna system, just like it has been done on many other aluminium devices - including iPads, iPhones and Apple Watches. Having built 5G systems for hobbyist computer boards (Pi etc), the antenna required is not so very large either. A MacBook is not and has never been a seamless block of aluminium - there are plenty of design choices to be made to help hide or minimise any antennas.
    - jjtheblunt 3y ago
      Yes it’s possible IF the case is changed. Bear in mind different bands (as cellular ios devices support) can force a different antenna geometry than a single band (regardless of coding schemes).
  - jetanoia 3y ago
    Your “plastic band” argument- indeed, most of your arguments on this- fails to acknowledge the pleasant reality of the ipad pro’s. My 2020 ipad pro 11” does not have that unsightly plastic band, nor the iphone 15 pro. As far as aesthetic elements, these enclosures appear essentially as metal and glass, an appearance not markedly different than existing macbook appearances. Even the iphone mini 13 manages to fit effective cellular arrays in its compact form sans the big plastic bands on those ipads you mention. And despite its diminutive size, the mini 13 can still manage a reliable call over cellular for hours at a time. With the greater real estate offered by the macBook form factor, there are broader options for effective antenna arrays and also their power supply versus phones and tablets.