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Matrix 2.0 is a major step towards getting friends & family on Matrix. Firstly, it's not introducing new features - it's just making the current featureset wor

Matrix 2.0 is a major step towards getting friends & family on Matrix. Firstly, it's not introducing new features - it's just making the current featureset work super-efficiently (while retaining compatibility with today's Matrix). So there should be no fragmentation between Element/Fluffychat/Thunderbird, with the possible exception of the new scalable encrypted VoIP conferencing (but then very few Matrix clients implemented the old VoIP conferencing, plus you can always just embed an Element Call instance to get at it now - as Element X does today). Secondly, we're explicitly working to protect Matrix from the commercial interests from Element (the company set up by the team who created Matrix, of which I'm ceo/cto as well as Matrix project lead). We already have The Matrix.org Foundation (https://matrix.org/foundation https://matrix.org/foundation) as an independent non-profit to hold the Matrix IP and maintain its neutrality - but we also just hired Josh Simmons (former President of the OSI) as its independent Managing Director (https://matrix.org/blog/2023/09/introducing-josh-simmons-managing-director/ https://matrix.org/blog/2023/09/introducing-josh-simmons-man...). So: going forwards, the Foundation increasingly does not have to depend on Element not being evil, but instead has its own independent management to ensure the protocol exists to support everyone in the ecosystem, without fragmentation, as per the guiding principles at https://matrix.org/foundation https://matrix.org/foundation - under its own autonomy. I'd say this is is good news for libre software privacy & security type people, but then again I'm biased. Practically, the only thing getting in the way of getting friends & family on Matrix is that Element X requires fancy OIDC-native homeservers for registration, so newbies won't be able to use Element X to join Matrix yet. But the app itself should be an excellent way to get folks on board in the very near future.

neilv 3y ago
Thank you for the comments. I'll keep my fingers crossed that this plays out well. > plus you can always just embed an Element Call instance That sounds like potentially a commercial embrace&extend&extinguish situation, which we need to avoid.
- Arathorn 3y ago
  Yup, good call point, which is why we deliberately implemented two different independent group VoIP implementations - the one in Element Call (based on matrix-js-sdk) and the one in Hydrogen (based on hydrogen-web-sdk). Admittedly the new livekit-based implementation takes us back down to a single implementation for now, but in its defense it’s only a few weeks old (with e2ee). Hopefully others will spin up independent implementations rapidly - although right now it does introduce a potential commercial EEE situation… but from on LiveKit rather than Element. Eitherway, it’s something we’re painfully aware of… while also trying to ensure we find enough $ to pay for dev on Matrix (and Element) otherwise the whole thing collapses.
em-bee 3y ago
element still has serious usability issues that need to be fixed before i can get friends or family on board. the way threads are displayed in the browser versions makes them hard to follow. in our hackerspace, where many are tech minded people, i see regular complaints about that. scrollback to unread messages often fails. i have never had another chat application where that was a problem. this should just work. the handling of encryption keys is very confusing. there are to many moving parts, it's not clear what i must save so that i can restore the keys in a new client. private rooms are also confusing. i want to have a private room be the name of my chat partner, and they want it to carry my name. being able to do that would be very helpful. i am also missing the ability to use a different nickname in every room. different groups know me under different nicknames. discord and wechat can do it. it would be great if matrix/element could do that too.
- mike-cardwell 3y ago
  Encryption in Matrix is a nightmare. I set up Synapse and pulled half a dozen or so people onto it. We have a few chat rooms. Randomly different users clients are unable to decrypt the messages of other users clients. You click some button about syncing encryption keys, and nothing happens. Then randomly a week later you can start reading each others messages again. shrug This has been going on for years now. This alone makes Matrix the worse chat platform out there from a users perspective IMO. I invested too much effort in getting things up and running and using it now though, so I'm just hoping that this gets fixed one day, or something better comes along that I can migrate to.
  - Arathorn 3y ago
    Sorry. As per the sibling comment to yours, we made a decision on Element Web/Desktop to rip out the old encryption implementation and replace it with matrix-rust-sdk’s crypto implementation about a year ago, and while it’s due to land next week, it means that some folks have had a miserable time in the interim.
    - beanjuiceII 3y ago

neilv 3y ago

Thank you for the comments. I'll keep my fingers crossed that this plays out well. > plus you can always just embed an Element Call instance That sounds like potentially a commercial embrace&extend&extinguish situation, which we need to avoid.

Arathorn 3y ago
Yup, good call point, which is why we deliberately implemented two different independent group VoIP implementations - the one in Element Call (based on matrix-js-sdk) and the one in Hydrogen (based on hydrogen-web-sdk). Admittedly the new livekit-based implementation takes us back down to a single implementation for now, but in its defense it’s only a few weeks old (with e2ee). Hopefully others will spin up independent implementations rapidly - although right now it does introduce a potential commercial EEE situation… but from on LiveKit rather than Element. Eitherway, it’s something we’re painfully aware of… while also trying to ensure we find enough $ to pay for dev on Matrix (and Element) otherwise the whole thing collapses.

em-bee 3y ago

element still has serious usability issues that need to be fixed before i can get friends or family on board. the way threads are displayed in the browser versions makes them hard to follow. in our hackerspace, where many are tech minded people, i see regular complaints about that. scrollback to unread messages often fails. i have never had another chat application where that was a problem. this should just work. the handling of encryption keys is very confusing. there are to many moving parts, it's not clear what i must save so that i can restore the keys in a new client. private rooms are also confusing. i want to have a private room be the name of my chat partner, and they want it to carry my name. being able to do that would be very helpful. i am also missing the ability to use a different nickname in every room. different groups know me under different nicknames. discord and wechat can do it. it would be great if matrix/element could do that too.

mike-cardwell 3y ago
Encryption in Matrix is a nightmare. I set up Synapse and pulled half a dozen or so people onto it. We have a few chat rooms. Randomly different users clients are unable to decrypt the messages of other users clients. You click some button about syncing encryption keys, and nothing happens. Then randomly a week later you can start reading each others messages again. shrug This has been going on for years now. This alone makes Matrix the worse chat platform out there from a users perspective IMO. I invested too much effort in getting things up and running and using it now though, so I'm just hoping that this gets fixed one day, or something better comes along that I can migrate to.
- Arathorn 3y ago
  Sorry. As per the sibling comment to yours, we made a decision on Element Web/Desktop to rip out the old encryption implementation and replace it with matrix-rust-sdk’s crypto implementation about a year ago, and while it’s due to land next week, it means that some folks have had a miserable time in the interim.
  - beanjuiceII 3y ago