5 ms·

This logic doesn't hold - the same is true of an iPad. To quote you, "Everyone has a phone. Why increase the BOM?" - if it's ok to include cost of a modem for a

by giobox 3y ago

This logic doesn't hold - the same is true of an iPad. To quote you, "Everyone has a phone. Why increase the BOM?" - if it's ok to include cost of a modem for an iPad, it's ok for a MacBook Pro too.

justcradd 3y ago
[dead]
jjtheblunt 3y ago
the thing is, historically, if you already make laptops (and they 20 years ago had a pcmcia slot in which a verizon, etc, cellular modem could fit...i had one), and you already later make iPhones, then it's a short jump from iPhone logic board to iPad. it's a longer jump to get a cellular capable antenna complex in an all metal (think semi faraday cage) aluminium unibody. point is, it's historical artifact originally. now, a decade later, perhaps the BOM thing is just enough motivation to not do it, or the ubiquity of "hotspots" via cellular lessens the appeal at scale.
- giobox 3y ago
  > then it's a short jump from iPhone logic board to iPad. Its arguably an even shorter jump between iPad and MacBook Pro today - the architecture of both products is incredibly similar now. > it's a longer jump to get a cellular capable antenna complex in an all metal (think semi faraday cage) aluminium unibody. You mean just like the aluminium bodies already present on the cellular iPads? Or several generations of iPhone? This excuse doesn't hold either.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    cellular ipads have an RF transparent band on their edges. ipad and iphone also have antenna designs integrated with the body design, which currently is only true for wifi and bluetooth in the above mentioned laptops. are you wanting a plastic band atop the laptop closing screen, to get a cellular capable antenna in an otherwise metal body? perhaps that's just not a priority with enough customers.
    - giobox 3y ago
      > are you wanting a plastic band atop the laptop closing screen, to get a cellular capable antenna in an otherwise metal body? I'm almost certain Apple's world class hardware team can integrate a cellular antenna to an aluminum laptop in a way that is visually pleasing, yes. This isn't some insurmountable problem we are positing here.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        I mean, that same hardware team designed a fundamentally flawed keyboard to shave like a millimeter from the laptop height.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
        that's the industrial design group, which was entirely distinct from the rf hardware world.
      - jjtheblunt 3y ago
        it probably would help if you'd listen to a person from the world class hardware team in question who worked in exactly this world for years, spanning all the devices discussed. that person might have strongly insinuated the law of nature challenges constraining propagation of RF at widely varying frequencies as they are paired with the esthetics challenges from a different group, if you noticed.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        musicale 3y ago
        The iPad itself and competing MacBook/MacBook Pro-like aluminum laptops from other vendors (Dell, HP, etc.) are existence proofs.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
- Teever 3y ago
  Are these cellular antennas really that much different from the wifi antennas that are already found in Apple laptops?
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    Yes. it's a huge topic, antennas are tuned in physical geometries for wavelengths, etc. this is a fun rabbithole https://antenna-theory.com/ https://antenna-theory.com/
  - justcradd 3y ago
    [dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
johnwalkr 3y ago
I don’t think the BOM is the issue. It’s a huge cost to have different variations for different regions, and a huge cost to go through certification for various regions. It’s obviously worth it for iPhone and watch, apparently worth it for iPad although most people I know buy the wifi only models. For MacBooks, even though they now share a lot of design with iPhones, I can’t see it being worth it for the few percent of customers that will pay extra for it on a MacBook.
- mcculley 3y ago
  I specifically said MacBook Pro. I agree it is probably not worthwhile for MacBook. I use my MacBook Pro for work travel. I realize other use cases can do without connectivity.
musicale 3y ago
> if it's ok to include cost of a modem for an iPad, it's ok for a MacBook Pro too. This exactly. The iPad is already like a smaller MacBook without a built-in keyboard that runs iPadOS.

by giobox 3y ago

This logic doesn't hold - the same is true of an iPad. To quote you, "Everyone has a phone. Why increase the BOM?" - if it's ok to include cost of a modem for an iPad, it's ok for a MacBook Pro too.

justcradd 3y ago

[dead]

jjtheblunt 3y ago

the thing is, historically, if you already make laptops (and they 20 years ago had a pcmcia slot in which a verizon, etc, cellular modem could fit...i had one), and you already later make iPhones, then it's a short jump from iPhone logic board to iPad. it's a longer jump to get a cellular capable antenna complex in an all metal (think semi faraday cage) aluminium unibody. point is, it's historical artifact originally. now, a decade later, perhaps the BOM thing is just enough motivation to not do it, or the ubiquity of "hotspots" via cellular lessens the appeal at scale.

giobox 3y ago
> then it's a short jump from iPhone logic board to iPad. Its arguably an even shorter jump between iPad and MacBook Pro today - the architecture of both products is incredibly similar now. > it's a longer jump to get a cellular capable antenna complex in an all metal (think semi faraday cage) aluminium unibody. You mean just like the aluminium bodies already present on the cellular iPads? Or several generations of iPhone? This excuse doesn't hold either.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  cellular ipads have an RF transparent band on their edges. ipad and iphone also have antenna designs integrated with the body design, which currently is only true for wifi and bluetooth in the above mentioned laptops. are you wanting a plastic band atop the laptop closing screen, to get a cellular capable antenna in an otherwise metal body? perhaps that's just not a priority with enough customers.
  - giobox 3y ago
    > are you wanting a plastic band atop the laptop closing screen, to get a cellular capable antenna in an otherwise metal body? I'm almost certain Apple's world class hardware team can integrate a cellular antenna to an aluminum laptop in a way that is visually pleasing, yes. This isn't some insurmountable problem we are positing here.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      I mean, that same hardware team designed a fundamentally flawed keyboard to shave like a millimeter from the laptop height.
      - jjtheblunt 3y ago
        that's the industrial design group, which was entirely distinct from the rf hardware world.
    - jjtheblunt 3y ago
      it probably would help if you'd listen to a person from the world class hardware team in question who worked in exactly this world for years, spanning all the devices discussed. that person might have strongly insinuated the law of nature challenges constraining propagation of RF at widely varying frequencies as they are paired with the esthetics challenges from a different group, if you noticed.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - musicale 3y ago
        The iPad itself and competing MacBook/MacBook Pro-like aluminum laptops from other vendors (Dell, HP, etc.) are existence proofs.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
Teever 3y ago
Are these cellular antennas really that much different from the wifi antennas that are already found in Apple laptops?
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  Yes. it's a huge topic, antennas are tuned in physical geometries for wavelengths, etc. this is a fun rabbithole https://antenna-theory.com/ https://antenna-theory.com/
- justcradd 3y ago
  [dead]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

johnwalkr 3y ago

I don’t think the BOM is the issue. It’s a huge cost to have different variations for different regions, and a huge cost to go through certification for various regions. It’s obviously worth it for iPhone and watch, apparently worth it for iPad although most people I know buy the wifi only models. For MacBooks, even though they now share a lot of design with iPhones, I can’t see it being worth it for the few percent of customers that will pay extra for it on a MacBook.

mcculley 3y ago
I specifically said MacBook Pro. I agree it is probably not worthwhile for MacBook. I use my MacBook Pro for work travel. I realize other use cases can do without connectivity.

musicale 3y ago

> if it's ok to include cost of a modem for an iPad, it's ok for a MacBook Pro too. This exactly. The iPad is already like a smaller MacBook without a built-in keyboard that runs iPadOS.