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I guess main the problem is the secrecy. Even the article is unable to say exactly what information the app has, and who has access to it—they mention safeguard

I guess main the problem is the secrecy. Even the article is unable to say exactly what information the app has, and who has access to it—they mention safeguarding leads being the users, but then talk about how "schools" get notified when a student has an encounter with the police. Does this information get sent only to qualified professionals with clear accountability, or does it get sent to a shared email address that the administrators' receptionist reads? The secretive approach to this is unsettling, because it implies they know they're doing something they'd get in trouble for. It sounds like the administration's response was "well, this app was public, parents could have read up on it if they wanted", which resembles the old better to ask forgiveness than permission tactic. Clearly, every part of this plan should have been proactively explained to parents beforehand.

voakbasda 3y ago
Secrecy is an integral part of the effectiveness of the system. If you know how the algorithm works, you can find ways to game it. That doesn't make the practice acceptable, but I think it explains the approach. FWIW, the same secretive approach prevents anyone from knowing why their social media accounts were banned, or how changes to a website will affect their ranking in the search engines. Exposing the underlying algorithms creates an arms race that will lead to even bigger problems.
- doctorpangloss 3y ago
  Hmm, but you can deploy essentially infinite resources for free in arbitrage to exploiting an algorithmic quirk in social media distribution, search engine rankings, etc. What exactly is the comparable threat model here? It's ridiculous. What are they exploiting, trace amounts of government resources? For one family?
tempaway22641 3y ago
There's no secrecy about it, the app, who has access to it and why is explained here: https://www.bristol.gov.uk/residents/social-care-and-health/children-and-families/insight-bristol https://www.bristol.gov.uk/residents/social-care-and-health/...
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  ...with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard"
- karaterobot 3y ago
  As I said in the comment you replied to, it should have been proactive. What I see here is that there exists a single page of text somewhere on a government website, waiting for parents to find it if they search around. I didn't see anything in that article about parents being informed the school was even using the app, let alone given a chance to ask questions or, you know, consent.

voakbasda 3y ago

Secrecy is an integral part of the effectiveness of the system. If you know how the algorithm works, you can find ways to game it. That doesn't make the practice acceptable, but I think it explains the approach. FWIW, the same secretive approach prevents anyone from knowing why their social media accounts were banned, or how changes to a website will affect their ranking in the search engines. Exposing the underlying algorithms creates an arms race that will lead to even bigger problems.

doctorpangloss 3y ago
Hmm, but you can deploy essentially infinite resources for free in arbitrage to exploiting an algorithmic quirk in social media distribution, search engine rankings, etc. What exactly is the comparable threat model here? It's ridiculous. What are they exploiting, trace amounts of government resources? For one family?

tempaway22641 3y ago

There's no secrecy about it, the app, who has access to it and why is explained here: https://www.bristol.gov.uk/residents/social-care-and-health/children-and-families/insight-bristol https://www.bristol.gov.uk/residents/social-care-and-health/...

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
...with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard"
karaterobot 3y ago
As I said in the comment you replied to, it should have been proactive. What I see here is that there exists a single page of text somewhere on a government website, waiting for parents to find it if they search around. I didn't see anything in that article about parents being informed the school was even using the app, let alone given a chance to ask questions or, you know, consent.