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When you give someone a power, always consider that it will basically always be used in the worst imaginable way. Regardless of any and all lip service to the c

by donatj 3y ago

When you give someone a power, always consider that it will basically always be used in the worst imaginable way. Regardless of any and all lip service to the contrary.

robertlagrant 3y ago
Yes, consider the power itself, not the category the power belongs to. If a school knows 2 extra things about you (on benefits; father in jail for child abuse), that's not the same as 24x7 video surveillance. Risk assess the reality, not the overarching category.
- throwaway71271 3y ago
  Why dont we just take all the children? Let the state raise them. Father was in jail, he should never see his children ever again. Mother was drunk, take the kids and lets sterlize the parents just in case. I am making an extreme argument, there is obviously a line for CPS, but you have to remember that every system in the modern society is trying to be total. The police wants to stop crime, at all cost, if they could put is all in matrix like cells so we cant move they would. I will leave it to you to think what the ultimate goal of the education system is. The only thing that stops systems from becoming total is our votes and also the fact that they are somewhat adversarial to each other e.g. if one becomes more total it consumes from the other system's power and so each systems fight for its life and multi dimensional predator/pray equilibrium is formed.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > you have to remember that every system in the modern society is trying to be total No, it's not. A school wanting to know a few things about a child is not "trying to be total". I get the extreme view; it can be warranted, but again, the worst case is not the average case, and we should just analyse the current case on its own merits.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    The Police is not a paper clip machine. As soon as they consume half of GDP taking more will decrease their funding since they don't produce anything.
  - krisoft 3y ago
    > you have to remember that every system in the modern society is trying to be total. What does “be total” means? I’m not familiar with the phrase. > The police wants to stop crime, at all cost Are you joking? Clearly not. There is so many things they could do if they “want to stop crime at all cost”. > I will leave it to you to think what the ultimate goal of the education system is. I don’t know what you are insinuating. Could you spell it out please?
- adolph 3y ago
  Yes: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy by Daniel J. Solove https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 Franz Kafka’s The Trial, which depicts a bureaucracy with inscrutable purposes that uses people’s information to make important decisions about them, yet denies the people the ability to participate in how their information is used. The problems captured by the Kafka metaphor are of a different sort than the problems caused by surveillance. They often do not result in inhibition or chilling. Instead, they are problems of information processing—the storage, use, or analysis of data—rather than information collection. They affect the power relationships between people and the institutions of the modern state. They not only frustrate the individual by creating a sense of helplessness and powerlessness, but they also affect social structure by altering the kind of relationships people have with the institutions that make important decisions about their lives.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    Sorry, I don't know how these relate to what I said.
badcppdev 3y ago
Have you thought about the number of powers both large and small that are delegated so that society can operate.
- diogenes4 3y ago
  If society is operating, it's not operating well.
freeopinion 3y ago
For example, if you allow ordinary people to operate heavy automobiles, somebody is going to use one to intentionally kill somebody else. Did you think about that before you unleashed millions of these killing machines? I'm not excited about developments in Bristol, but introducing extreme paranoia isn't helpful. Just a low level of healthy paranoia is good enough.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  The climate change crowd probably shouldn't be so glib about cars being murder machines. Supposedly, they are murdering an entire planet. Also, at least where I am, the drunk driving rates are high enough, that murder-by-car isn't exactly uncommon. I don't think your counter-argument hits as hard as you think it does.

by donatj 3y ago

When you give someone a power, always consider that it will basically always be used in the worst imaginable way. Regardless of any and all lip service to the contrary.

robertlagrant 3y ago

Yes, consider the power itself, not the category the power belongs to. If a school knows 2 extra things about you (on benefits; father in jail for child abuse), that's not the same as 24x7 video surveillance. Risk assess the reality, not the overarching category.

throwaway71271 3y ago
Why dont we just take all the children? Let the state raise them. Father was in jail, he should never see his children ever again. Mother was drunk, take the kids and lets sterlize the parents just in case. I am making an extreme argument, there is obviously a line for CPS, but you have to remember that every system in the modern society is trying to be total. The police wants to stop crime, at all cost, if they could put is all in matrix like cells so we cant move they would. I will leave it to you to think what the ultimate goal of the education system is. The only thing that stops systems from becoming total is our votes and also the fact that they are somewhat adversarial to each other e.g. if one becomes more total it consumes from the other system's power and so each systems fight for its life and multi dimensional predator/pray equilibrium is formed.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > you have to remember that every system in the modern society is trying to be total No, it's not. A school wanting to know a few things about a child is not "trying to be total". I get the extreme view; it can be warranted, but again, the worst case is not the average case, and we should just analyse the current case on its own merits.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  The Police is not a paper clip machine. As soon as they consume half of GDP taking more will decrease their funding since they don't produce anything.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > you have to remember that every system in the modern society is trying to be total. What does “be total” means? I’m not familiar with the phrase. > The police wants to stop crime, at all cost Are you joking? Clearly not. There is so many things they could do if they “want to stop crime at all cost”. > I will leave it to you to think what the ultimate goal of the education system is. I don’t know what you are insinuating. Could you spell it out please?
adolph 3y ago
Yes: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy by Daniel J. Solove https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 Franz Kafka’s The Trial, which depicts a bureaucracy with inscrutable purposes that uses people’s information to make important decisions about them, yet denies the people the ability to participate in how their information is used. The problems captured by the Kafka metaphor are of a different sort than the problems caused by surveillance. They often do not result in inhibition or chilling. Instead, they are problems of information processing—the storage, use, or analysis of data—rather than information collection. They affect the power relationships between people and the institutions of the modern state. They not only frustrate the individual by creating a sense of helplessness and powerlessness, but they also affect social structure by altering the kind of relationships people have with the institutions that make important decisions about their lives.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Sorry, I don't know how these relate to what I said.

badcppdev 3y ago

Have you thought about the number of powers both large and small that are delegated so that society can operate.

diogenes4 3y ago
If society is operating, it's not operating well.

freeopinion 3y ago

For example, if you allow ordinary people to operate heavy automobiles, somebody is going to use one to intentionally kill somebody else. Did you think about that before you unleashed millions of these killing machines? I'm not excited about developments in Bristol, but introducing extreme paranoia isn't helpful. Just a low level of healthy paranoia is good enough.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
The climate change crowd probably shouldn't be so glib about cars being murder machines. Supposedly, they are murdering an entire planet. Also, at least where I am, the drunk driving rates are high enough, that murder-by-car isn't exactly uncommon. I don't think your counter-argument hits as hard as you think it does.