5 ms·

Agree on most points, but the air conditioning thing misses a bit of nuance: it's so hot and humid here that if you left a room for a significant amount of time

Agree on most points, but the air conditioning thing misses a bit of nuance: it's so hot and humid here that if you left a room for a significant amount of time with no cooling, that room is likely to become uninhabitable from mold and mildew real quick. Before I moved down here I knew that in general hot == more living things (more energy -> more plants -> more food for the not plant stuff etc), but it's crazy how fast stuff grows. If someone leaves their house for the summer and doesn't have someone come by and trim the yard then nature will reclaim their house by the time they get back.

itishappy 3y ago
There's nuance there too. I'm don't think I've ever walked into a hotel in the US without immediately having to turn down the AC; 30°F below ambient temperatures is not needed for mildew prevention.
- regularfry 3y ago
  Apparently the logic is that it's cheaper and uses less energy to maintain a low temperature than to let the temperature and humidity rise then have to pull it down again. I can believe that: dry air is a much better insulator than humid air, and if you want it as dry as possible, that means going as cold as possible.
wmorgan 3y ago
Yes. I read a tweet a while back -- which appears to check out -- that the biggest city in Florida in 1900 was Key West, population 17,000, and Key West is not even on the mainland. The alternative to air conditioning (not to mention modern mosquito suppression) is that people simply would not live in Florida. As you note, it's not an option to take it easy in the summer because otherwise the plants would cover everything and the roads would be impassable. Somebody has to mow it, and they need a place to cool off. For another example, the author notes that the fruits are wrapped in plastic, but I don't think he realizes how much faster food spoils in Florida than the UK where he's from. Every bad apple that has to be thrown away is another apple which needs to be trucked in.
- Ma8ee 3y ago
  Maybe the conclusion should be that people shouldn’t live in Florida because it just takes too much resources.
  - Freak_NL 3y ago
    In that respect DeSantis could be seen as an eco-warrior in disguise: make Florida politically so completely unattractive to live in that people will leave in droves, reducing the state's carbon footprint. A shame that his policies are just as likely to attract a certain type of person too…
    - kcplate 3y ago
      It’s kind of funny that you think that DeSantis has made Florida “politically unattractive” to where people will “leave in droves” when over the last few years there has been such an influx of people to Florida escaping New York, New Jersey, and Illinois to Florida primarily due to excessive taxes and their Covid politics. In my neighborhood, there aren’t many of us long time multi-decade Florida residents. Most of my neighbors have been Florida residents for less than 5 years and many since Covid. And in my experience in my neighborhood, the types of people that his policies attracted are the type of people who simply got tired of the kind of policies in their former states and municipalities that they perceived were hurting their kids education…regardless of their political leanings. Many of my new neighbors lean left politically, but moved here because our schools were open. Certainly not saying every DeSantis policy is a winner or popular, but when other states were shut down, killing small businesses, and watching their kids fall behind in education, Florida was open. People noticed and it appealed to them.
  - leo_r 3y ago
    yes because Florida is the only place on the face of the earth where the weather is hot
    - Ma8ee 3y ago
      Who suggested that? There are many places that are unsuitable for human habitat. Phoenix is another one.
occams_chainsaw 3y ago
yup- in florida, you need to leave the AC on, even if just at a higher ~80f temp while on vacation
alt227 3y ago
>>it's so hot and humid here that if you left a room for a significant amount of time with no cooling, that room is likely to become uninhabitable from mold and mildew real quick. I wonder how humans survived there before the invention of electricity and air con!
- seurimas 3y ago
  Well, we didn't mind the mold and mildew as much, for starters.
- joenot443 3y ago
  Do you actually wonder? I figured it was pretty obvious - humans are able to survive under much worse conditions than we enjoy today. They're less happy and don't live as long, but humans can survive under conditions you'd probably find appalling. Is this a notion you're unfamiliar with?
RajT88 3y ago
> it's so hot and humid here that if you left a room for a significant amount of time with no cooling, that room is likely to become uninhabitable from mold and mildew real quick. Indeed. It blew my mind when my wife and I took a vacation to Tampa in July. Without the AC running full blast all the time, the tile floor of our hotel (being cooler than the rest of the room) developed standing water. Like, walking through the kitchen area was splish splash splish and then a crash when we would slip and fall. We actually did try not running the AC while we were out and about, but it made it hazardous. To the hotel's credit, the AC was not running when we checked in.
malermeister 3y ago
Maybe that's just not a place for large-scale human settlements and we should accept that instead of wasting energy on a lost cause?
hermitcrab 3y ago
Author here. I was only staying in hotels and obviously it is a lot quicker to cool a hotel room than a whole house. However passive cooling of houses has been a thing in hot parts of the world for hundreds (thousands) of years. As far a I can tell, it isn't a thing in Florida. Why? No incentive for the builders?
- itishappy 3y ago
  Humidity. Passive cooling works great in arid climates.
  - hermitcrab 3y ago
    I guess condensation is an issue with passive cooling in hot humid climates. But I did a search online and it seems there are quite a few effective strategies for cooling in hot humid countries that don't involve aircon. The house has to be designed with that in mind though.
    - BWStearns 3y ago
      Given the power costs of running AC non-stop I assure you most Floridians would jump on some kind of passive option. What strategies did you find that are effective in humid climates?
      - hermitcrab 3y ago
        You would think they would jump on solar panels as well, but apparently not. Someone else commented that this might be partly down to hurricanes and insurance. Here are some articles I found from a quick search: https://www.novatr.com/blog/passive-design-strategies-for-warm-and-humid-climate https://www.novatr.com/blog/passive-design-strategies-for-wa... https://ijmme.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40712-014-0014-7 https://ijmme.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40712-014-0... https://thefifthestate.com.au/housing-2/ways-to-keep-cool-without-costing-the-planet-part-1-passive-cooling/ https://thefifthestate.com.au/housing-2/ways-to-keep-cool-wi... https://uplevelgreen.com/passive-solar-cooling-in-hot-humid-climates/#how-does-humidity-effect-passive-solar-cooling https://uplevelgreen.com/passive-solar-cooling-in-hot-humid-... I've only had time to skim them. Even if these strategies don't do away with the need for aircon, they might substantially reduce it,

itishappy 3y ago

There's nuance there too. I'm don't think I've ever walked into a hotel in the US without immediately having to turn down the AC; 30°F below ambient temperatures is not needed for mildew prevention.

regularfry 3y ago
Apparently the logic is that it's cheaper and uses less energy to maintain a low temperature than to let the temperature and humidity rise then have to pull it down again. I can believe that: dry air is a much better insulator than humid air, and if you want it as dry as possible, that means going as cold as possible.

wmorgan 3y ago

Yes. I read a tweet a while back -- which appears to check out -- that the biggest city in Florida in 1900 was Key West, population 17,000, and Key West is not even on the mainland. The alternative to air conditioning (not to mention modern mosquito suppression) is that people simply would not live in Florida. As you note, it's not an option to take it easy in the summer because otherwise the plants would cover everything and the roads would be impassable. Somebody has to mow it, and they need a place to cool off. For another example, the author notes that the fruits are wrapped in plastic, but I don't think he realizes how much faster food spoils in Florida than the UK where he's from. Every bad apple that has to be thrown away is another apple which needs to be trucked in.

Ma8ee 3y ago
Maybe the conclusion should be that people shouldn’t live in Florida because it just takes too much resources.
- Freak_NL 3y ago
  In that respect DeSantis could be seen as an eco-warrior in disguise: make Florida politically so completely unattractive to live in that people will leave in droves, reducing the state's carbon footprint. A shame that his policies are just as likely to attract a certain type of person too…
  - kcplate 3y ago
    It’s kind of funny that you think that DeSantis has made Florida “politically unattractive” to where people will “leave in droves” when over the last few years there has been such an influx of people to Florida escaping New York, New Jersey, and Illinois to Florida primarily due to excessive taxes and their Covid politics. In my neighborhood, there aren’t many of us long time multi-decade Florida residents. Most of my neighbors have been Florida residents for less than 5 years and many since Covid. And in my experience in my neighborhood, the types of people that his policies attracted are the type of people who simply got tired of the kind of policies in their former states and municipalities that they perceived were hurting their kids education…regardless of their political leanings. Many of my new neighbors lean left politically, but moved here because our schools were open. Certainly not saying every DeSantis policy is a winner or popular, but when other states were shut down, killing small businesses, and watching their kids fall behind in education, Florida was open. People noticed and it appealed to them.
- leo_r 3y ago
  yes because Florida is the only place on the face of the earth where the weather is hot
  - Ma8ee 3y ago
    Who suggested that? There are many places that are unsuitable for human habitat. Phoenix is another one.

occams_chainsaw 3y ago

yup- in florida, you need to leave the AC on, even if just at a higher ~80f temp while on vacation

alt227 3y ago

>>it's so hot and humid here that if you left a room for a significant amount of time with no cooling, that room is likely to become uninhabitable from mold and mildew real quick. I wonder how humans survived there before the invention of electricity and air con!

seurimas 3y ago
Well, we didn't mind the mold and mildew as much, for starters.
joenot443 3y ago
Do you actually wonder? I figured it was pretty obvious - humans are able to survive under much worse conditions than we enjoy today. They're less happy and don't live as long, but humans can survive under conditions you'd probably find appalling. Is this a notion you're unfamiliar with?

RajT88 3y ago

> it's so hot and humid here that if you left a room for a significant amount of time with no cooling, that room is likely to become uninhabitable from mold and mildew real quick. Indeed. It blew my mind when my wife and I took a vacation to Tampa in July. Without the AC running full blast all the time, the tile floor of our hotel (being cooler than the rest of the room) developed standing water. Like, walking through the kitchen area was splish splash splish and then a crash when we would slip and fall. We actually did try not running the AC while we were out and about, but it made it hazardous. To the hotel's credit, the AC was not running when we checked in.

malermeister 3y ago

Maybe that's just not a place for large-scale human settlements and we should accept that instead of wasting energy on a lost cause?

hermitcrab 3y ago

Author here. I was only staying in hotels and obviously it is a lot quicker to cool a hotel room than a whole house. However passive cooling of houses has been a thing in hot parts of the world for hundreds (thousands) of years. As far a I can tell, it isn't a thing in Florida. Why? No incentive for the builders?

itishappy 3y ago
Humidity. Passive cooling works great in arid climates.
- hermitcrab 3y ago
  I guess condensation is an issue with passive cooling in hot humid climates. But I did a search online and it seems there are quite a few effective strategies for cooling in hot humid countries that don't involve aircon. The house has to be designed with that in mind though.
  - BWStearns 3y ago
    Given the power costs of running AC non-stop I assure you most Floridians would jump on some kind of passive option. What strategies did you find that are effective in humid climates?
    - hermitcrab 3y ago
      You would think they would jump on solar panels as well, but apparently not. Someone else commented that this might be partly down to hurricanes and insurance. Here are some articles I found from a quick search: https://www.novatr.com/blog/passive-design-strategies-for-warm-and-humid-climate https://www.novatr.com/blog/passive-design-strategies-for-wa... https://ijmme.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40712-014-0014-7 https://ijmme.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40712-014-0... https://thefifthestate.com.au/housing-2/ways-to-keep-cool-without-costing-the-planet-part-1-passive-cooling/ https://thefifthestate.com.au/housing-2/ways-to-keep-cool-wi... https://uplevelgreen.com/passive-solar-cooling-in-hot-humid-climates/#how-does-humidity-effect-passive-solar-cooling https://uplevelgreen.com/passive-solar-cooling-in-hot-humid-... I've only had time to skim them. Even if these strategies don't do away with the need for aircon, they might substantially reduce it,