4 ms·

"Opt" means to "To choose; select" [0]. If you opt in (i.e. make the choice to go in), that implies that you were not already in. In other words, it implies tha

by ptx 3y ago

"Opt" means to "To choose; select" [0]. If you opt in (i.e. make the choice to go in), that implies that you were not already in. In other words, it implies that the default (when you don't make a choice) is "out", i.e. disabled. "Opt-in" and "opt-out" describe what the default is, so adding "by default" doesn't make any sense. If you can choose to go in ("opt-in"), then the default is "out". If you can choose to go out ("opt-out"), then the default is "in". Some companies appear to be trying to twist this into "The choice is yours, and we have taken the liberty of making that choice on your behalf.". [0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/opt#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/opt#English

jstummbillig 3y ago
Opt in by participation is implicit all the time. If I play soccer I am not "opting in" to get hit by a ball, but rest assured, it is going to happen. There are topics dear to every subgroups heart, that the members will claim, surely must be exempt from this. As far as I can tell, the exemptions are mostly arbitrary.
- ricardobeat 3y ago
  You’re completely ignoring the context. This is essentially about checkboxes. “Enabled by default” would mean tracking is always on, but doesn’t tell you if it can be disabled by the user. In the realm of privacy choices in software, we then started referring to these as “opt-in” (default off) or “opt-out” (default on) to communicate the default setting + the ability to change it. Advertising trackers, for example, are mandated by law to be “opt-in” (they pre-select the checkbox for you of course, without submitting, but that’s a whole other story).
- ptx 3y ago
  In the soccer scenario, as you say, the only choice to make is whether to participate. Whether to get hit by the ball can't be chosen independently. So the only opting you can do is playing (and getting hit) or not playing (and not getting hit). In that scenario, the default is to not play soccer. If you want to play, you have to choose it, i.e. opt to play soccer, i.e. "opt in". So the default is that you're "out". Thus, playing soccer is "opt-in". If people were born into soccer matches and had to actively try to escape, that would be "opt-out". You make a choice (opt) to escape out of the soccer match. Notice that "opt-in" and "opt-out" describe the inverse of the default value: "opt-in" is the same as "out by default" and "opt-out" the same as "in by default". Mixing these phrases with opposite meanings (e.g. "opt-in by default") creates confusion, perhaps intentionally, about what the default value is.

by ptx 3y ago

jstummbillig 3y ago

Opt in by participation is implicit all the time. If I play soccer I am not "opting in" to get hit by a ball, but rest assured, it is going to happen. There are topics dear to every subgroups heart, that the members will claim, surely must be exempt from this. As far as I can tell, the exemptions are mostly arbitrary.

ricardobeat 3y ago
You’re completely ignoring the context. This is essentially about checkboxes. “Enabled by default” would mean tracking is always on, but doesn’t tell you if it can be disabled by the user. In the realm of privacy choices in software, we then started referring to these as “opt-in” (default off) or “opt-out” (default on) to communicate the default setting + the ability to change it. Advertising trackers, for example, are mandated by law to be “opt-in” (they pre-select the checkbox for you of course, without submitting, but that’s a whole other story).
ptx 3y ago
In the soccer scenario, as you say, the only choice to make is whether to participate. Whether to get hit by the ball can't be chosen independently. So the only opting you can do is playing (and getting hit) or not playing (and not getting hit). In that scenario, the default is to not play soccer. If you want to play, you have to choose it, i.e. opt to play soccer, i.e. "opt in". So the default is that you're "out". Thus, playing soccer is "opt-in". If people were born into soccer matches and had to actively try to escape, that would be "opt-out". You make a choice (opt) to escape out of the soccer match. Notice that "opt-in" and "opt-out" describe the inverse of the default value: "opt-in" is the same as "out by default" and "opt-out" the same as "in by default". Mixing these phrases with opposite meanings (e.g. "opt-in by default") creates confusion, perhaps intentionally, about what the default value is.