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Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers
- dejongh 3y agoOn September 18th Atlassian announced a new license model for Jira automation that severely limits automation for all but enterprise customers starting November 1st. Many customers will be forced to give up their automation or upgrade to expensive enterprise tiers. Since there is no enterprise tier for Jira Product Discovery customers using automation in this product don’t even have the option to pay more.
- MattGaiser 3y ago> Since there is no enterprise tier for Jira Product Discovery customers using automation in this product don’t even have the option to pay more. This one is fascinating. I get paywalling features. I get removing features. But just turning them off is unusual.
- bombcar 3y agoAtlassian has been doing this for years, killing the server versions to force people into cloud and revenue, etc. If you’re on their products I feel for you son, but if you’re starting out I’d avoid anything Atlassin infected.
- hd4 3y agohttps://alternativeto.net/software/jira/?license=opensource https://alternativeto.net/software/jira/?license=opensource
- RamblingCTO 3y agoWhile Jira and everything else by Atlassian has and will always be garbage, it looks way better than Redmine at least.
- unixhero 3y agoNah. It works really good. Not garbage at all.
- RamblingCTO 3y agoI couldn't agree less. It costs a fucking ton and does not enable us to find information well, document stuff properly, and don't get me started on the fucking opaque permission management.
- unixhero 3y agoSomeone else is paying (megacorp) Search is great
- RamblingCTO 3y agoThe search is great? I have to disagree on that as well.
- unixhero 3y agoYou can make specific querirs with jql on jira and confluence just works like a google search. I don't know what you are disagreeing about. I would not buy it myself due to pricing, but when I find it running in corporate land, it is great to use.
- RamblingCTO 3y agoI never use the search because it's so bad, it never finds literal matches of a document title for me. I always have to navigate to the pages/star them in order to find stuff.
- steve1977 3y agoConfluence full text search is so bad that there are memes about it…
- hospitalJail 3y agoI am the ultimate smart tech man at my company. Warned them about Jira. Warned them about M$/Sharepoint/Power Automate. Jira and New M$ services are at bait pricing. They will all be extortionary levels at some point. Kind of amazes me people are paying for inferior closed off services, but I imagine the people making the purchasing decisions are more concerned about which concert or sports game the sales person is taking them to.
- AlexandrB 3y agoA slightly less cynical take is that "nobody got fired for choosing Jira/Microsoft/IBM". It's easier to justify choosing a market leader, even if things go badly later, than going against the grain.
- s0l1dsnak3123 3y agoI think you are correct precisely because this is how rentier economics seems to work out in every sector - just look at the housing market. Any captive audience that gives up agency to a third party in exchange for a subscription is ultimately beholden to the whims of that third party. It's an inherently risky proposition.
- world2vec 3y agoWhat would you recommend as Power Automate replacement?
- osullip 3y agoWhat do you want to do? There is: Zapier Make IFTTT Integrately Etc etc A ton of automation tools out there.
- hospitalJail 3y agoPython. I'm pretty uncompromising about that. Maybe autohotkey in addition.
- MilStdJunkie 3y agoThis is more or less my life as well. The "finisher argument" that gets rolled out is "product lifetime costs". It goes like this. Open Source Product A will always be your responsibility, which will take X hours off the team's time forever. Vendor Product B will be maintained from the vendor side, thus removing that wildcard of X. Ergo, over the "lifetime" of the product, B will have lower costs than A. Since this argument has dollars in it, it always wins, and everyone makes smug faces. I personally think it's almost completely ridiculous to evaluate software with anything called "lifetime costs", and honestly, it's getting pretty close to ridiculous to cite that metric for any complex system, physical or not. But that's just me[1]. I'd be interested to hear what the general readership's opinion is on whether or not the "Lifetime Costs" argument holds water, and why. [1] In the software case, what's a "Product" "Lifetime"? Is that "the software in its current precise configuration", because then we're talking a lifetime of picoseconds. Or is Product defined so broadly that virtually any software of that class can be called "the Product", in which case you're stretching my credulity to say you're capable of supporting this notion of "Product" for N arbitrary period. I don't think you will make any money doing that. Either way . . when it comes to "lifetime costs" for physical complex systems, there's a supplementary argument, out of scope for this discussion, but still applicable in heavy industry.
- xvilka 3y agoGitHub and GitLab workflows are much more convenient in my opinion. They were made with actual workers in mind: developers, QA, release managers, DevOps, etc. Jira, on the other hand, is purely manager's toy with all it's useless features that often stand in a way of daily routine. I never saw any developer who was happy about Jira.
- vertigolimbo 3y agoYou can make it as useless and as powerful as you want. I have worked on many projects and developers loved it (no joke). But it was down to having it properly setup and using just the bare minimum that enabled to do work. What often happens, is that JIRA "experts" (usually incompetent PMs or Scrum masters) let JIRA dictate your workflow. That's where discontent arises. (No affiliation to Atlassian).
- Zigurd 3y agoUnlike most IDEs, where using more of the tools means better productivity, Agile project management doesn't benefit from more features and capabilities. A memory leak finder or profiler or better lint has no downside. Not true for project management features like, for example, "velocity" measurements denominated in story points (unitless) over time (seconds). Management metrics bullshit seldom benefits a project. In feature-monster tools like JIRA you have to do a lot of work to un-feature a project and those features are still lurking.
- cassianoleal 3y agoYou can make good workflows on Jira, yes. That doesn't fix the horrible UX, sluggishness, confusing options, forms that present a lot of useless fields but don't give you the option to present other, more useful ones, ... I could go on. Jira is a terrible tool.
- oneplane 3y agoSounds like your experience mostly revolves around older self-hosted JIRA versions? The UX on modern JIRA has been fine for years, and the options and forms are easy to use. Granted, you can add useless restrictions and weird field configurations, but if someone configures it until it's broken, that would be on them, not really on the product.
- freitzkriesler2 3y agoWe're using azure dev ops and recently started leveraging their Pm tool for our requirements management. So far, I've been impressed. It took a little time to figure out how to operate within their paradigm. Once we tackled that, I don't see is going to another solution. For better or worse, 365 is a pretty decent suite. Integration across their stack is a little schizo at times but it works well enough. The only Achilles heel right now is ms project. They're planning on EoL it but in true Microsoft fashion are cagey when they plan on doing it and the replacement is lack luster at best. We're switching to Wrike instead which has so far been what we want.
- regularfry 3y agoSome people in my org like to say "MS Planner is the kanban tool of choice" and... just... no. That's the big problem when you have an IT org that wants to buy heavily into the 365 ecosystem, you end up having to fight off utterly boneheaded migration projects.
- thrillgore 3y agoI was a big proponent of Jira over all other PM systems because of its functionality but now? Gitlab is better, and isn't enshittifying as quickly as the rest.
- pratio 3y agoI've been hosting Taiga for a small team and it's been a pleasure to work with. Can't tell how it'll work for a 100 developer team with multiple product managers, scrum masters etc, I'm hoping someone else here has an idea. But for a small team of 25-30 people everything's smooth. Website: https://taiga.io/ https://taiga.io/ Docker: https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-docker https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-docker Docs: https://docs.taiga.io/ https://docs.taiga.io/ API: https://docs.taiga.io/api.html https://docs.taiga.io/api.html
- resharpe105 3y agoMeanwhile, a company I used to work at keeps on using self hosted MantisBT. Its maintenance takes like 2 engineer days per year total, if that. Its initial setup with all the plugins ( of note are those for project management and release tracking) and integrations (e.g. git) took one engineer week if I remember correctly. And it works just fine for 7 years now, to the point that the only advantage of Jira I see is a slightly fancier looking interface for the regular user. Whilst costing peanuts. I even prefer the old school Mantis BT look and feel.
- Tade0 3y agoMantis! Last time I used that system was in 2012 - also self-hosted by the company. My impression of JIRA was always that it felt slow - at least compared to our Mantis instance. Mantis might not have such a ridiculous range of customizations, but does a small to mid-sized business ever use most of them?
- mellosouls 3y agoI don't use Jira but any bad faith move (as claimed) is a serious concern for users of other Atlassian products. I've always been a champion of Trello and really don't want to be having to add cautionary notes about corporate sharks owning it, and functionality taken for granted being whipped away. Not cool.
- bachmeier 3y agoBad faith move? They gave ownership of my Bitbucket account to someone else and initially refused to even tell me what they did: https://lancebachmeier.com/trivia/atlassian.html https://lancebachmeier.com/trivia/atlassian.html
- bagasme 3y agoSmells like that someone else were given superuser...
- AndrewDucker 3y agoLots of discussion here of whether Jira is any good or not. Almost none about the actual contents of the article. None at all about how the changes are bad for all but enterprise customers. It's not obvious to me - and it would be nice to have an explanation.
- davinci123 3y agoI think this is the section: "In today’s model, an automation rule that is configured to run in a single Jira project does not count toward the usage limit. In the new model, all automation rule types (i.e. single project, project type, multi-project, and global rules) will count towards the usage limit."
- DrBazza 3y agoAtlassian has always been "enterprise-first" as far as I know. I can only assume that their free-tier which I've rarely encountered in the wild, isn't that successful in terms of conversion to the full-fat product or is costly in some way. I couldn't decide whether enterprise customers would be any worse off. I've maintained for a while that the bug-tracking industry is overdue a "v2" or "v3" product (e.g. IRC -> MSM Messenger/Yahoo -> Slack-Discord).
- davinci123 3y agoI don't know which world you live in - it was never an enterprise first company. From the very beginning it catered to teams (not orgs) and refused to sell to the enterprise.
- DrBazza 3y agoI worked at "megabank" back in the early 00s, and we were one of the first purchasers of Jira.
- sieabahlpark 3y ago[dead]
- bobnamob 3y agoTo be "that guy", the submitted title is heavily editorialized
- Thomaschaaf 3y agoInterestingly Slack Workflows also introduces pricing. So it seems both companies are targeting charging for automations / charging for things which used to be free.
- gumballindie 3y agoJust like code smells, there are workplace smells - practices that indicate a place is meh. Use of atlassian Jira is one such smell.
- steve1977 3y agoMy blacklist: - Jira - Confluence - Salesforce - Anything SAP, but especially HR products - MS Teams - MS Sharepoint
- hef19898 3y agoSo, around 98%+ of companies?
- steve1977 3y agoUnfortunately yes
- gumballindie 3y agoTeams is high up on the stink list - its steaming.
- lazycog512 3y agoJira's APIs are bloated horrid nightmares and I hope this drives people away from actually leveraging them.
- rubenfiszel 3y agoyou can also use open-source automation tools like n8n or windmill.dev, or github and gitlab workflows as mentionned above.
- lunarimiso 3y agoWhy would you use tools/olatforms that was clearly made for enterprise as non-enterprise. Plenty of free tools and platforms around. Github for an example has really good F2U workflows.