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> and do you truly believe they will step back from this bill? step back? they're criticising the government for not doing more/watering it down. if anything

by kmlx 3y ago

> and do you truly believe they will step back from this bill? step back? they're criticising the government for not doing more/watering it down. if anything the next government will strengthen these rules, not water them down.

sph 3y ago
Anything for children safety, right? I have said years ago that all our rights, in all Western nations, will be stripped with that excuse, because it's so damn easy to convince the laymen that it's for the good of the children, and paint protestors are pedophile apologists. Child safety laws are the Trojan horse of surveillance.
- jjgreen 3y ago
  Child safety is what is pushed in the press, the act itself is filled with "content harmful to children and adults", see section 46 for the details. Nice to know that Bravermen and the rest of them are protecting us from harm.
  - dewclin 3y ago
    > Child safety is what is pushed in the press For example, in yesterday's Guardian [1]. Meta introducing encryption "will let child abusers ‘hide in the dark’". [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/20/meta-encryption-plan-will-let-child-abusers-hide-in-the-dark-says-uk-campaign https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/20/meta-encr...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hilbert42 3y ago
  General apathy about this law is just another symptom of a failing democracy. It's not only this online safety law, there's been apathy over all laws and regulation about security and safety—they've all sailed through into law over the last 30 or so years without so much as a murmur from the GP. The only opposition comes from background noise—such as likes of us who post to columns on HN and we're easily discarded. Lawmakers and politicians know if they want a law passed for certain all they they have to do is to mention those 's' words in context. As some have said, people are apathetic about protesting over this issue—and I'd add many other issues as well—as it does no good. I'd essentially agree, protesting is damn hard and thankless work especially so given that it's effectively banned in most anglophone countries. Seems to me little or nothing can be done until the political climate changes, when or if that will be is anyone's guess. One issue that may tip the balance after backdoors are added to encryption is when politicians are caught out by their own law—as, no doubt, sooner or later they will be. Imagine the impact of a political scandal like the Profumo Affair after having been exposed by a backdoor hack. Only then will politicians realize what they've actually done—so too will the GP. For those not old enough to realize how huge the Profumo scandal was here's the Wiki (I remember it being headline news for days and I wasn't even in the UK at the time): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_affair https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_affair
  - kwhitefoot 3y ago
    > Imagine the impact of a political scandal like the Profumo Affair I can imagine it. It would be declared to be the personal failing of the persons concerned and the political ship would sail on without so much as a shudder.
    - hilbert42 3y ago
      Perhaps so, but back then it brought down the government, whether it would do so today in an era of poorer ethics, highly-tuned government spin and when both government bureaucrats and politicians are well immunized against public opinion is a moot point. In ways I agree with your assessment as I've been around long enough to witness those changes. I can only add that unless we citizens insist on changes that actually benefit us and not the Establishment/Ruling Elite then we'll end up imprisoned in a totalitarian dictatorship. At some point the current trend/movement will have to stop or that's where we'll end up by default.
- ballenf 3y ago
  Beginning 40 years ago, the same efforts were made under the guise of fighting the drug war. Then 15-20 years ago, it became clear that that boogeyman wasn't scary enough, so the messaging slowly shifted to terrorism and then children. Those two together seem to have been the key to shifting public opinion. The terrorism threats started as racist fear mongering before shifting to highlighting threats from internal nationalist groups. This combination gives every political leaning something to fear and someone to demonize.

by kmlx 3y ago

sph 3y ago

Anything for children safety, right? I have said years ago that all our rights, in all Western nations, will be stripped with that excuse, because it's so damn easy to convince the laymen that it's for the good of the children, and paint protestors are pedophile apologists. Child safety laws are the Trojan horse of surveillance.

jjgreen 3y ago
Child safety is what is pushed in the press, the act itself is filled with "content harmful to children and adults", see section 46 for the details. Nice to know that Bravermen and the rest of them are protecting us from harm.
- dewclin 3y ago
  > Child safety is what is pushed in the press For example, in yesterday's Guardian [1]. Meta introducing encryption "will let child abusers ‘hide in the dark’". [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/20/meta-encryption-plan-will-let-child-abusers-hide-in-the-dark-says-uk-campaign https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/20/meta-encr...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hilbert42 3y ago
General apathy about this law is just another symptom of a failing democracy. It's not only this online safety law, there's been apathy over all laws and regulation about security and safety—they've all sailed through into law over the last 30 or so years without so much as a murmur from the GP. The only opposition comes from background noise—such as likes of us who post to columns on HN and we're easily discarded. Lawmakers and politicians know if they want a law passed for certain all they they have to do is to mention those 's' words in context. As some have said, people are apathetic about protesting over this issue—and I'd add many other issues as well—as it does no good. I'd essentially agree, protesting is damn hard and thankless work especially so given that it's effectively banned in most anglophone countries. Seems to me little or nothing can be done until the political climate changes, when or if that will be is anyone's guess. One issue that may tip the balance after backdoors are added to encryption is when politicians are caught out by their own law—as, no doubt, sooner or later they will be. Imagine the impact of a political scandal like the Profumo Affair after having been exposed by a backdoor hack. Only then will politicians realize what they've actually done—so too will the GP. For those not old enough to realize how huge the Profumo scandal was here's the Wiki (I remember it being headline news for days and I wasn't even in the UK at the time): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_affair https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_affair
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  > Imagine the impact of a political scandal like the Profumo Affair I can imagine it. It would be declared to be the personal failing of the persons concerned and the political ship would sail on without so much as a shudder.
  - hilbert42 3y ago
    Perhaps so, but back then it brought down the government, whether it would do so today in an era of poorer ethics, highly-tuned government spin and when both government bureaucrats and politicians are well immunized against public opinion is a moot point. In ways I agree with your assessment as I've been around long enough to witness those changes. I can only add that unless we citizens insist on changes that actually benefit us and not the Establishment/Ruling Elite then we'll end up imprisoned in a totalitarian dictatorship. At some point the current trend/movement will have to stop or that's where we'll end up by default.
ballenf 3y ago
Beginning 40 years ago, the same efforts were made under the guise of fighting the drug war. Then 15-20 years ago, it became clear that that boogeyman wasn't scary enough, so the messaging slowly shifted to terrorism and then children. Those two together seem to have been the key to shifting public opinion. The terrorism threats started as racist fear mongering before shifting to highlighting threats from internal nationalist groups. This combination gives every political leaning something to fear and someone to demonize.