3 ms·

I don't remember the time that online certificates from MIT, Berkeley, etc would have been anti signals. https://www.edx.org/learn/computer-programming/massach

I don't remember the time that online certificates from MIT, Berkeley, etc would have been anti signals. https://www.edx.org/learn/computer-programming/massachusetts-institute-of-technology-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-7 https://www.edx.org/learn/computer-programming/massachusetts...

saagarjha 3y ago
Nobody will fault you for learning programming through an online course. They will, however, mark you down for listing that on your resume as your sole programming experience.
- meneer_oke 3y ago
  Do you that course that I refer to? People within companies are all different, so we can't say. Some hiring managers might, others actually prefer no degree, others might focus more "shipped". It depends
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    To be clear I'm speaking generally, not on an individual basis. Everyone has their own preferences–I personally don't discount it. But in my experience the average hiring manager does, because certifications are often seen as a thing you just pay money for to get a piece of paper. Of course college degrees are like that too, but the quality of "big state school CS degree" is usually somewhat regulated and "big state school 6 month CS certification" is often not.
    - meneer_oke 3y ago
      Please take a look at the course. The courses from Berkeley, Harvard, Stanford, MIT are quite good. There is no paying, just knowledge.
      - saagarjha 3y ago
        No, I know about the courses. They're pretty good. I'm just saying that there's baggage attached to certificates from random courses, even if some of them are good.
        meneer_oke 3y ago
        I would agree, but the topic started with that they are anti signals.
        morelisp 3y ago
        You're still not getting it. Taking the course is not a negative signal. Putting the course on your resume, as if that conveys useful information, is.
        meneer_oke 3y ago
        I think it's clear that you are not getting it, that is just your opinion. Are you a hiring manager? A you are hiring manager of the whole IT industry? Even in this thread there are many that have successfully landed great jobs with certificates on their resume.
        morelisp 3y ago
        OK, good luck.
morelisp 3y ago
Honestly, a full genuine undergrad CS degree from Harvard is nearly an anti-signal...
- meneer_oke 3y ago
  Seems even in this thread there are many without any certificate nor formal education. Would it be possible to explain how that is happening?
  - morelisp 3y ago
    I have a formal CS education, although I've hired a bunch of people without. I'm just saying, a Harvard CS degree tells me either you're extremely bad with money, or you (or your parents) are more interested in social signalling than a thorough education. You also seem to be missing that the content associated with the certificate can be fine, but the validation process broken enough that the certificate per se (and therefore listing it on a resume) is worthless. (I prefer to hire based primarily on work samples or a take-home project.)
    - meneer_oke 3y ago
      Well the context is online courses from Harvard, MIT. Such as the CS50 course referenced by many even in this thread. Those courses are free, there is a option for a certification for around 150 dollar. People actually learn the basics of CS and foundational knowledge in those courses. And how to use git and GitHub. I never stated that those certs, or courses alone would be enough. This comment thread started because someone called it anti-signal. Listing anything on a Resume is never pointless, it tells us something about the potential hire. Courses like the one mentioned are open, which means if you wanted to test that knowledge you could, easily. That could tell you so much about the potential hire: * Did they actually do the course. * Did they retain the information. * Did they understood the material. * How did they use the information, in their own projects or clients. From those answers you would even be able to learn more about their seniority level. The point is, "anti-signals" is just not everywhere the case. It might be for some, sure. But how many of those would like to see formal CS education? Seems that even you are more on the side of actual code examples. And in order to create great code, allot of deep knowledge is needed. Which those courses provide.

saagarjha 3y ago

Nobody will fault you for learning programming through an online course. They will, however, mark you down for listing that on your resume as your sole programming experience.

meneer_oke 3y ago
Do you that course that I refer to? People within companies are all different, so we can't say. Some hiring managers might, others actually prefer no degree, others might focus more "shipped". It depends
- saagarjha 3y ago
  To be clear I'm speaking generally, not on an individual basis. Everyone has their own preferences–I personally don't discount it. But in my experience the average hiring manager does, because certifications are often seen as a thing you just pay money for to get a piece of paper. Of course college degrees are like that too, but the quality of "big state school CS degree" is usually somewhat regulated and "big state school 6 month CS certification" is often not.
  - meneer_oke 3y ago
    Please take a look at the course. The courses from Berkeley, Harvard, Stanford, MIT are quite good. There is no paying, just knowledge.
    - saagarjha 3y ago
      No, I know about the courses. They're pretty good. I'm just saying that there's baggage attached to certificates from random courses, even if some of them are good.
      - meneer_oke 3y ago
        I would agree, but the topic started with that they are anti signals.
        morelisp 3y ago
        You're still not getting it. Taking the course is not a negative signal. Putting the course on your resume, as if that conveys useful information, is.
        meneer_oke 3y ago
        I think it's clear that you are not getting it, that is just your opinion. Are you a hiring manager? A you are hiring manager of the whole IT industry? Even in this thread there are many that have successfully landed great jobs with certificates on their resume.
        morelisp 3y ago
        OK, good luck.

morelisp 3y ago

Honestly, a full genuine undergrad CS degree from Harvard is nearly an anti-signal...

meneer_oke 3y ago
Seems even in this thread there are many without any certificate nor formal education. Would it be possible to explain how that is happening?
- morelisp 3y ago
  I have a formal CS education, although I've hired a bunch of people without. I'm just saying, a Harvard CS degree tells me either you're extremely bad with money, or you (or your parents) are more interested in social signalling than a thorough education. You also seem to be missing that the content associated with the certificate can be fine, but the validation process broken enough that the certificate per se (and therefore listing it on a resume) is worthless. (I prefer to hire based primarily on work samples or a take-home project.)
  - meneer_oke 3y ago
    Well the context is online courses from Harvard, MIT. Such as the CS50 course referenced by many even in this thread. Those courses are free, there is a option for a certification for around 150 dollar. People actually learn the basics of CS and foundational knowledge in those courses. And how to use git and GitHub. I never stated that those certs, or courses alone would be enough. This comment thread started because someone called it anti-signal. Listing anything on a Resume is never pointless, it tells us something about the potential hire. Courses like the one mentioned are open, which means if you wanted to test that knowledge you could, easily. That could tell you so much about the potential hire: * Did they actually do the course. * Did they retain the information. * Did they understood the material. * How did they use the information, in their own projects or clients. From those answers you would even be able to learn more about their seniority level. The point is, "anti-signals" is just not everywhere the case. It might be for some, sure. But how many of those would like to see formal CS education? Seems that even you are more on the side of actual code examples. And in order to create great code, allot of deep knowledge is needed. Which those courses provide.