4 ms·

Windows 8.1 was released in 2013, with suppport ending in 2023 - a 10 year support window (backporting security fixes.) And Linux cuts from 6 to 2? I think yo

Windows 8.1 was released in 2013, with suppport ending in 2023 - a 10 year support window (backporting security fixes.) And Linux cuts from 6 to 2? I think you just stressed TowerTall's point.

jraph 3y ago
I don't think TowerTall was speaking about this. They are saying: "Recent versions of Windows can run old programs made for old versions of Windows. How?". The Linux kernel is very good at it because of the "Do not break userspace" Linus Torvalds' rule. The usual user space on top of the Linux kernel, not so much. So yes, backward compatibility and backporting are different matters. And Windows addresses them both indeed. Your parent commenter is not comparing Windows with Linux.
- kelnos 3y ago
  I think the point is more of a "so what?" Windows' backward compatibility is completely irrelevant and uninteresting here because we're not talking about backward compatibility, we're talking about long-term support.
BiteCode_dev 3y ago
Linux is not a company. You pay microsoft for that support. You can have 10 years support for linux, just pay red hat for it like you pay microsoft.
heavyset_go 3y ago
They asked questions and I answered them. I'm not trying to make a point, and I don't think that the OP was trying to make a point with their questions, either.
Kipters 3y ago
Microsoft does it too, Windows 11 versions have a 2-year support lifecycle. Windows 11 21H2 will reach end of support this next october. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-11-home-and-pro https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows...
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Windows 11 uses the NT 10.0 kernel that originally released with Windows 10 in 2015. NT 10.0 will be supported for well over a decade at this point, maybe even two. NT6.1 (Windows 7) was also supported from 2009 to 2020 (11 years!), and NT 5.1 (Windows XP) was supported from 2001 through either 2014 (13 years!) or 2019 (18 years!) depending on support channel. Microsoft will support a product for a decade if not more, assuming you're keeping up with security updates which they absolutely will backport, sometimes even beyond EOL if the fix is that important. Linux with 2 years is a bad joke, by comparison.
  - diffeomorphism 3y ago
    That only tells me something about naming? I have no clue how many LTS or non-LTS versions were between the one that shipped with windows 10 and 10.0.22621.900. For all I know, that could be like Linux 2.something being all the way from 1996 to 2011, except that Linux 3.something had a major change of "NOTHING. Absolutely nothing." except for a shiny new number (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel). So honest question: What does 10.0.22621.900 mean? Is 10.0.X.Y supported for a decade or is that discontinued at some point and I am forced to upgrade to 10.0.X+10,Y-5?
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      10.0 is the current and latest NT kernel and it's LTS like the rest of Microsoft's Windows offerings. Much like how Linux 6.1 is an LTS.
      - diffeomorphism 3y ago
        That does not answer the question? 10.0.22621.900 seems to be the latest and 10.0 just a prefix for all of them. As an example from https://superuser.com/questions/296020/windows-kernel-name-version https://superuser.com/questions/296020/windows-kernel-name-v... lists > 6.1.7600.16385, 6.1.7600.16539, 6.1.7600.16617, 6.1.7600.16695, 6.1.7600.16792, 6.1.7600.20655, 6.1.7600.20738, 6.1.7600.20826, 6.1.7600.20941, 6.1.7601.17514, 6.1.7601.17592, 6.1.7601.21701 Are these all just 6.1? Or is 7601 a different version than 7600? Could I choose to stay on 7600 and get backports or do I have to switch to 7601?
diffeomorphism 3y ago
How do windows kernel versions like 6.1.7600.20655 work? Maybe my google fu is weak, but from looking at https://superuser.com/questions/296020/windows-kernel-name-version https://superuser.com/questions/296020/windows-kernel-name-v... it seems that Microsoft does a mix of backports and upgrades: > 6.1.7600.16385, 6.1.7600.16539, 6.1.7600.16617, 6.1.7600.16695, 6.1.7600.16792, 6.1.7600.20655, 6.1.7600.20738, 6.1.7600.20826, 6.1.7600.20941, 6.1.7601.17514, 6.1.7601.17592, 6.1.7601.21701 So this does not look like 10 year support for the initial version but rather like switching different LTS versions over that time. Is there any data from microsoft itself on support duration, release dates, backports and how to parse these numbers?
- kelnos 3y ago
  I don't think we can infer all that much from the version numbers without knowing Microsoft's internal processes around this sort of thing, and exactly what those version numbers mean in the context of Microsoft. To me, though, 6.1.7600.16385 -> 6.1.7601.21701 does sound like long-term support for a single "version" (whatever that word means in this context).
kelnos 3y ago
I don't think any of this is useful to compare like this. Windows has had three major releases in 11 years. The Linux kernel does one every two months. Windows is an entire OS, with a userland and GUI. The Linux kernel is... a kernel. The development and support cycles are naturally going to be very different for the two. And regardless, the mainline Linux kernel team is not beholden to anyone for any kind of support. Whatever they do is either voluntary, or done because someone has decided to pay some subset of developers for it to get done. Microsoft employs and pays the people who maintain their old Windows versions. If no one is paying someone enough to maintain an old Linux kernel for six years, why would they choose to do it? It's mostly thankless, unrewarding work. And given that the pace of development for the Linux kernel is much much faster than that of Windows (or even just the Windows/NT kernel), the job is also much more challenging.

Windows 8.1 was released in 2013, with suppport ending in 2023 - a 10 year support window (backporting security fixes.) And Linux cuts from 6 to 2? I think you just stressed TowerTall's point.

jraph 3y ago

I don't think TowerTall was speaking about this. They are saying: "Recent versions of Windows can run old programs made for old versions of Windows. How?". The Linux kernel is very good at it because of the "Do not break userspace" Linus Torvalds' rule. The usual user space on top of the Linux kernel, not so much. So yes, backward compatibility and backporting are different matters. And Windows addresses them both indeed. Your parent commenter is not comparing Windows with Linux.

kelnos 3y ago
I think the point is more of a "so what?" Windows' backward compatibility is completely irrelevant and uninteresting here because we're not talking about backward compatibility, we're talking about long-term support.

BiteCode_dev 3y ago

Linux is not a company. You pay microsoft for that support. You can have 10 years support for linux, just pay red hat for it like you pay microsoft.

heavyset_go 3y ago

They asked questions and I answered them. I'm not trying to make a point, and I don't think that the OP was trying to make a point with their questions, either.

Kipters 3y ago

Microsoft does it too, Windows 11 versions have a 2-year support lifecycle. Windows 11 21H2 will reach end of support this next october. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-11-home-and-pro https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows...

Dalewyn 3y ago
Windows 11 uses the NT 10.0 kernel that originally released with Windows 10 in 2015. NT 10.0 will be supported for well over a decade at this point, maybe even two. NT6.1 (Windows 7) was also supported from 2009 to 2020 (11 years!), and NT 5.1 (Windows XP) was supported from 2001 through either 2014 (13 years!) or 2019 (18 years!) depending on support channel. Microsoft will support a product for a decade if not more, assuming you're keeping up with security updates which they absolutely will backport, sometimes even beyond EOL if the fix is that important. Linux with 2 years is a bad joke, by comparison.
- diffeomorphism 3y ago
  That only tells me something about naming? I have no clue how many LTS or non-LTS versions were between the one that shipped with windows 10 and 10.0.22621.900. For all I know, that could be like Linux 2.something being all the way from 1996 to 2011, except that Linux 3.something had a major change of "NOTHING. Absolutely nothing." except for a shiny new number (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel). So honest question: What does 10.0.22621.900 mean? Is 10.0.X.Y supported for a decade or is that discontinued at some point and I am forced to upgrade to 10.0.X+10,Y-5?
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    10.0 is the current and latest NT kernel and it's LTS like the rest of Microsoft's Windows offerings. Much like how Linux 6.1 is an LTS.
    - diffeomorphism 3y ago
      That does not answer the question? 10.0.22621.900 seems to be the latest and 10.0 just a prefix for all of them. As an example from https://superuser.com/questions/296020/windows-kernel-name-version https://superuser.com/questions/296020/windows-kernel-name-v... lists > 6.1.7600.16385, 6.1.7600.16539, 6.1.7600.16617, 6.1.7600.16695, 6.1.7600.16792, 6.1.7600.20655, 6.1.7600.20738, 6.1.7600.20826, 6.1.7600.20941, 6.1.7601.17514, 6.1.7601.17592, 6.1.7601.21701 Are these all just 6.1? Or is 7601 a different version than 7600? Could I choose to stay on 7600 and get backports or do I have to switch to 7601?

diffeomorphism 3y ago

How do windows kernel versions like 6.1.7600.20655 work? Maybe my google fu is weak, but from looking at https://superuser.com/questions/296020/windows-kernel-name-version https://superuser.com/questions/296020/windows-kernel-name-v... it seems that Microsoft does a mix of backports and upgrades: > 6.1.7600.16385, 6.1.7600.16539, 6.1.7600.16617, 6.1.7600.16695, 6.1.7600.16792, 6.1.7600.20655, 6.1.7600.20738, 6.1.7600.20826, 6.1.7600.20941, 6.1.7601.17514, 6.1.7601.17592, 6.1.7601.21701 So this does not look like 10 year support for the initial version but rather like switching different LTS versions over that time. Is there any data from microsoft itself on support duration, release dates, backports and how to parse these numbers?

kelnos 3y ago
I don't think we can infer all that much from the version numbers without knowing Microsoft's internal processes around this sort of thing, and exactly what those version numbers mean in the context of Microsoft. To me, though, 6.1.7600.16385 -> 6.1.7601.21701 does sound like long-term support for a single "version" (whatever that word means in this context).

kelnos 3y ago

I don't think any of this is useful to compare like this. Windows has had three major releases in 11 years. The Linux kernel does one every two months. Windows is an entire OS, with a userland and GUI. The Linux kernel is... a kernel. The development and support cycles are naturally going to be very different for the two. And regardless, the mainline Linux kernel team is not beholden to anyone for any kind of support. Whatever they do is either voluntary, or done because someone has decided to pay some subset of developers for it to get done. Microsoft employs and pays the people who maintain their old Windows versions. If no one is paying someone enough to maintain an old Linux kernel for six years, why would they choose to do it? It's mostly thankless, unrewarding work. And given that the pace of development for the Linux kernel is much much faster than that of Windows (or even just the Windows/NT kernel), the job is also much more challenging.