4 ms·

Why is Y Combinator so defensive lately?

68 points by WisNorCan 3y ago

evbogue 3y ago
I feel like I missed out on some major drama by not following these guys on X. Can someone explain this a little more, I feel as if I don't quite understand what the beef is just from reading the article.
- WisNorCan 3y ago
  As I understand it, the beef is that Neo compared themselves to YC claiming to be a better incubator because they have comparatively more mentors. YCs contention is that the number of mentors on the website is not the right way to compare. For example, the YC mentors are working full time at YC helping startups while Neo’s mentors have full time jobs elsewhere and only spend a % of their time mentoring startups. So the contention is that Neo is directly calling out YC and making dishonest comparisons. There are other things as well about the ethics and behavior of the Neo founder, Ali Partovi, but it is only hinted at. Not explicitly stated with examples backing up any claims.
  - verdverm 3y ago
    so the "slander" went both ways then?
    - WisNorCan 3y ago
      Not clear that slander is in play here. Neo used a framing that made themselves look better and others look worse. YC refuted it. I am assuming YC has the receipts for broader insinuations.
      - verdverm 3y ago
        "slander" was the word used by Gary Tan, the CEO of YC https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1703121529683456286?s=20 https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1703121529683456286?s=20
  - snickerbockers 3y ago
    No, YC's contention is that the other organization made the (supposedly false) statement that "YC does not offer personalized advice". Which is not actually what he said at all, what he said was that they both have the same number of mentors but YC has significantly more startups. I don't know whether those numbers are accurate or not because i don't know (or care) about either of these companies, but he definitely did not say what he's being accused of saying.
cowthulhu 3y ago
If I ever run a successful business, I’m definitely going to have a “no posting about the business on social media” rule to avoid situations like this! I’m not sure who’s in the right or not, but reading through the tweets (almost) everyone involved ends up coming across as somewhat childish, which seems like a total lose-lose.
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  You could hire a Chief Drama Officer
- version_five 3y ago
  Right, it seems like with celebrities no press is bad press (with a couple exceptions) and Twitter feuds and drama bring more interest. But doing it on behalf of a company can only look bad. The obvious example is Musk who regularly makes himself look like an idiot, though I think the kind of whiny defensive posts mentioned in this article look way worse. Somewhat surprisingly, I think Yan LeCunn does a decent job of posting fairly aggressive tweets but not looking like a whiner, crazy or someone shouting pointlessly into the void.
- WisNorCan 3y ago
  To be clear these are not random people inside the respective organizations. These are the CEOs of the organizations. I trust that they had the judgment to decide that they needed to defend their reputation.
  - dustingetz 3y ago
    lol
- gochi 3y ago
  On one hand, the rule is good, on the other a loss for everyone else who enjoys influential figures demonstrating how petty and childish they are behind the layers of image crafting.
  - 3y ago
lnxg33k1 3y ago
I don’t understand why it’s not possible to downvote posts, I’d have saved someone else from killing his own braincells too by reading this article, instead I could not contribute to the mental health of a fellow specimen, sorry random stranger, not my fault
- catach 3y ago
  Pretty sure it's an HN trope to read some of the comments before the article, in part to get a sense of the quality of the article. So, your duty was done.
- karmakaze 3y ago
  This could be a good feature if there's clear guidelines on what's off-topic or undesirable by some criteria. Seems more tricky than downvoting comments which works pretty well for keeping discourse civil as interests and what's interesting is very subjective. I do like systems that have a controverserial section if it doesn't attract content by its own nature.
- Retric 3y ago
  Given the option people downvote without reading quickly creating an Ecco chamber. There’s a flag function which serves a similar purpose but the extra effort lets a lot of more marginal content slip through. You want more diverse content because it attracts a more interesting audience. There’s several mechanisms to promote this. “Health risks of travel in early-modern Britain” only has 35 upvotes in the last 6 hours but still ranks #17 because diversity is encouraged. Another story is talking about remnants of a structure dating back “476,000 years and predating the evolution of our own species, Homo sapiens” https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/09/20/archaeologists-discover-worlds-oldest-wooden-structure/ https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/09/20/archaeologists-disco... There both interesting but so is “Fine-grained caching strategies of dynamic queries” etc etc.
  - lnxg33k1 3y ago
    Yeah I think it won’t be against diversity, or it is not, just keep diversity within the boundaries of what the overall community would like, I mean, there is nothing about Kim Kardashian, because I suppose it would be too much diversity? Flagging I think helps to shape or better, contain, the diversity?
1letterunixname 3y ago
To be fair, what sets YC apart from most, not all incubators, is the level of community communication: signal and support. Not every incubator has as much critical mass/network effects (yes, that cliche) of cleverness, hustle, intellect, and track record in one place. Sometimes, the relative difference can be as stark as comparing an Olympic training swimming center vs. the local middle school pool open during summer months: both can cool you off, but which will be more useful to an athlete? Social media: The business utility of it is primarily in broadcasting press release-type information and real-time notices. For personal use, the power law distribution of popularity suggests it's a time suck with little or no net positive value.
imperialdrive 3y ago
Money and power make people do things they would likely regret otherwise.

68 points by WisNorCan 3y ago

I feel like I missed out on some major drama by not following these guys on X. Can someone explain this a little more, I feel as if I don't quite understand what the beef is just from reading the article.

WisNorCan 3y ago
As I understand it, the beef is that Neo compared themselves to YC claiming to be a better incubator because they have comparatively more mentors. YCs contention is that the number of mentors on the website is not the right way to compare. For example, the YC mentors are working full time at YC helping startups while Neo’s mentors have full time jobs elsewhere and only spend a % of their time mentoring startups. So the contention is that Neo is directly calling out YC and making dishonest comparisons. There are other things as well about the ethics and behavior of the Neo founder, Ali Partovi, but it is only hinted at. Not explicitly stated with examples backing up any claims.
- verdverm 3y ago
  so the "slander" went both ways then?
  - WisNorCan 3y ago
    Not clear that slander is in play here. Neo used a framing that made themselves look better and others look worse. YC refuted it. I am assuming YC has the receipts for broader insinuations.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      "slander" was the word used by Gary Tan, the CEO of YC https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1703121529683456286?s=20 https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1703121529683456286?s=20
- snickerbockers 3y ago
  No, YC's contention is that the other organization made the (supposedly false) statement that "YC does not offer personalized advice". Which is not actually what he said at all, what he said was that they both have the same number of mentors but YC has significantly more startups. I don't know whether those numbers are accurate or not because i don't know (or care) about either of these companies, but he definitely did not say what he's being accused of saying.

cowthulhu 3y ago

If I ever run a successful business, I’m definitely going to have a “no posting about the business on social media” rule to avoid situations like this! I’m not sure who’s in the right or not, but reading through the tweets (almost) everyone involved ends up coming across as somewhat childish, which seems like a total lose-lose.

lnxg33k1 3y ago
You could hire a Chief Drama Officer
version_five 3y ago
Right, it seems like with celebrities no press is bad press (with a couple exceptions) and Twitter feuds and drama bring more interest. But doing it on behalf of a company can only look bad. The obvious example is Musk who regularly makes himself look like an idiot, though I think the kind of whiny defensive posts mentioned in this article look way worse. Somewhat surprisingly, I think Yan LeCunn does a decent job of posting fairly aggressive tweets but not looking like a whiner, crazy or someone shouting pointlessly into the void.
WisNorCan 3y ago
To be clear these are not random people inside the respective organizations. These are the CEOs of the organizations. I trust that they had the judgment to decide that they needed to defend their reputation.
- dustingetz 3y ago
  lol
gochi 3y ago
On one hand, the rule is good, on the other a loss for everyone else who enjoys influential figures demonstrating how petty and childish they are behind the layers of image crafting.
- 3y ago

lnxg33k1 3y ago

I don’t understand why it’s not possible to downvote posts, I’d have saved someone else from killing his own braincells too by reading this article, instead I could not contribute to the mental health of a fellow specimen, sorry random stranger, not my fault

catach 3y ago
Pretty sure it's an HN trope to read some of the comments before the article, in part to get a sense of the quality of the article. So, your duty was done.
karmakaze 3y ago
This could be a good feature if there's clear guidelines on what's off-topic or undesirable by some criteria. Seems more tricky than downvoting comments which works pretty well for keeping discourse civil as interests and what's interesting is very subjective. I do like systems that have a controverserial section if it doesn't attract content by its own nature.
Retric 3y ago
Given the option people downvote without reading quickly creating an Ecco chamber. There’s a flag function which serves a similar purpose but the extra effort lets a lot of more marginal content slip through. You want more diverse content because it attracts a more interesting audience. There’s several mechanisms to promote this. “Health risks of travel in early-modern Britain” only has 35 upvotes in the last 6 hours but still ranks #17 because diversity is encouraged. Another story is talking about remnants of a structure dating back “476,000 years and predating the evolution of our own species, Homo sapiens” https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/09/20/archaeologists-discover-worlds-oldest-wooden-structure/ https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/09/20/archaeologists-disco... There both interesting but so is “Fine-grained caching strategies of dynamic queries” etc etc.
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  Yeah I think it won’t be against diversity, or it is not, just keep diversity within the boundaries of what the overall community would like, I mean, there is nothing about Kim Kardashian, because I suppose it would be too much diversity? Flagging I think helps to shape or better, contain, the diversity?

1letterunixname 3y ago

To be fair, what sets YC apart from most, not all incubators, is the level of community communication: signal and support. Not every incubator has as much critical mass/network effects (yes, that cliche) of cleverness, hustle, intellect, and track record in one place. Sometimes, the relative difference can be as stark as comparing an Olympic training swimming center vs. the local middle school pool open during summer months: both can cool you off, but which will be more useful to an athlete? Social media: The business utility of it is primarily in broadcasting press release-type information and real-time notices. For personal use, the power law distribution of popularity suggests it's a time suck with little or no net positive value.

imperialdrive 3y ago

Money and power make people do things they would likely regret otherwise.