5 ms·

Yep, and the most effective way to do it is a job guarantee: http://www.jobguarantee.org/ http://www.jobguarantee.org/

by dools 3y ago

itake 3y ago
I don’t see how this fixes housing problems. If there are 5k housing units available, what is the “ socially inclusive minimum wage” such that everyone can afford housing? This formula assumes all property and services are in abundance, but that is not reality.
- wbc 3y ago
  well clearly the solution is www.houseguarantee.lol
  - dools 3y ago
    Well ... isn't it? If people don't have jobs, give them a job. If people don't have houses, give them a house. Social housing isn't exactly a novel concept.
- dools 3y ago
  There's no reason that we shouldn't fix involuntary unemployment because the same policy doesn't also automatically fix other problems. A federal Job Guarantee does have the potential to ease housing pressures by increasing mobility and allowing people access to lower cost housing options that can ease local housing pressures in larger cities.
- idiotsecant 3y ago
  I think you're not stretching those mental muscles quite far enough. Keeping people fed, housed, and secured is kind of the point of having a society. If the housing doesn't exist, we build it. If the food doesn't exist, we grow it. If we don't have security, we make it. Those who don't have occupations can be enlisted to help with those efforts. The last time we did this it was called the new deal, and it revitalized america. It's time for a new new deal
  - itake 3y ago
    > I think you're not stretching those mental muscles quite far enough. I think you're not reading the news enough... > If the housing doesn't exist, we build it. Where? Cities (and Nimbies) don't allow new housing to be built. Cities like NYC, LA, SF, Seattle are partially or fully surrounded by water. How do we "grow" the land? Why? Cities cap rent prices, so it doesn't make sense for a builder or investor to spend $1m getting permits and building property to make $1k/mo in rent. > If the food doesn't exist, we grow it. This is easy for the USA, but doesn't help for countries like Sri Lanka that physically can't grow their own food.
sneak 3y ago
There seem to be a million different issues with a proposal like this, not the least of which is that the allocation of the labor amounts to a corporate or municipal handout. If you pay a living wage to a zillion people, they have to be assigned some sort of valuable work to do if it's not just a UBI system. The government already pays everyone to do the work the government wants done, so the target of this inflation-funded labor value would be, what, precisely? There's only so much garbage that needs picking up.
- RhodesianHunter 3y ago
  The amount of work that needs to be done is nearly infinite. It's just that we don't currently value the work as highly as the cash it would take to pay the worker. In a world where we decided to do this, there is plenty these people could be doing to contribute greatly to society.
  - sneak 3y ago
    It wasn't rhetoric - what work would they be doing? For whom? Who would assign it? Based on what priorities? We are talking about a firehose of somewhere around five hundred billion dollars a year. Where do you intend to aim it?
    - RhodesianHunter 3y ago
      Our infrastructure is woefully out of date and remains so because it's very expensive to fix. Let's fix it. Fill pot holes, add and improve drainage canals, build damns and levees, etc.
      - sneak 3y ago
        Ok, who gets priority? Whose bridges get fixed first? Population centers? Rural places without a lot of traffic? Which states? What about the environmental considerations for the dams? Who gets the power generated? This is what I mean by a "municipal handout" - this is a firehose of value, and the people you point it at will be enriched. The allocation of that value is not trivial, as everyone who holds USD is paying for the labor via inflation of the money supply.

Yep, and the most effective way to do it is a job guarantee: http://www.jobguarantee.org/ http://www.jobguarantee.org/

by dools 3y ago

Yep, and the most effective way to do it is a job guarantee: http://www.jobguarantee.org/ http://www.jobguarantee.org/

I don’t see how this fixes housing problems. If there are 5k housing units available, what is the “ socially inclusive minimum wage” such that everyone can afford housing? This formula assumes all property and services are in abundance, but that is not reality.

wbc 3y ago
well clearly the solution is www.houseguarantee.lol
- dools 3y ago
  Well ... isn't it? If people don't have jobs, give them a job. If people don't have houses, give them a house. Social housing isn't exactly a novel concept.
dools 3y ago
There's no reason that we shouldn't fix involuntary unemployment because the same policy doesn't also automatically fix other problems. A federal Job Guarantee does have the potential to ease housing pressures by increasing mobility and allowing people access to lower cost housing options that can ease local housing pressures in larger cities.
idiotsecant 3y ago
I think you're not stretching those mental muscles quite far enough. Keeping people fed, housed, and secured is kind of the point of having a society. If the housing doesn't exist, we build it. If the food doesn't exist, we grow it. If we don't have security, we make it. Those who don't have occupations can be enlisted to help with those efforts. The last time we did this it was called the new deal, and it revitalized america. It's time for a new new deal
- itake 3y ago
  > I think you're not stretching those mental muscles quite far enough. I think you're not reading the news enough... > If the housing doesn't exist, we build it. Where? Cities (and Nimbies) don't allow new housing to be built. Cities like NYC, LA, SF, Seattle are partially or fully surrounded by water. How do we "grow" the land? Why? Cities cap rent prices, so it doesn't make sense for a builder or investor to spend $1m getting permits and building property to make $1k/mo in rent. > If the food doesn't exist, we grow it. This is easy for the USA, but doesn't help for countries like Sri Lanka that physically can't grow their own food.

sneak 3y ago

There seem to be a million different issues with a proposal like this, not the least of which is that the allocation of the labor amounts to a corporate or municipal handout. If you pay a living wage to a zillion people, they have to be assigned some sort of valuable work to do if it's not just a UBI system. The government already pays everyone to do the work the government wants done, so the target of this inflation-funded labor value would be, what, precisely? There's only so much garbage that needs picking up.

RhodesianHunter 3y ago
The amount of work that needs to be done is nearly infinite. It's just that we don't currently value the work as highly as the cash it would take to pay the worker. In a world where we decided to do this, there is plenty these people could be doing to contribute greatly to society.
- sneak 3y ago
  It wasn't rhetoric - what work would they be doing? For whom? Who would assign it? Based on what priorities? We are talking about a firehose of somewhere around five hundred billion dollars a year. Where do you intend to aim it?
  - RhodesianHunter 3y ago
    Our infrastructure is woefully out of date and remains so because it's very expensive to fix. Let's fix it. Fill pot holes, add and improve drainage canals, build damns and levees, etc.
    - sneak 3y ago
      Ok, who gets priority? Whose bridges get fixed first? Population centers? Rural places without a lot of traffic? Which states? What about the environmental considerations for the dams? Who gets the power generated? This is what I mean by a "municipal handout" - this is a firehose of value, and the people you point it at will be enriched. The allocation of that value is not trivial, as everyone who holds USD is paying for the labor via inflation of the money supply.