3 ms·

“Why are you crying?!? Real men don’t cry!”

rootusrootus 3y ago
Exactly this. But even worse, this is frequently not said aloud. It is implicit in all of our interactions. Express too much emotion outside of certain narrow contexts, and other people (men and women alike) will look at you like you are a wimp. Nobody has to say a word.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  I think it's worse than that. Traditional gender norms are perfectly ok with men expressing their emotions as long as those emotions are anger.
snapplebobapple 3y ago
That's just the crass version of the actually good advice that goes as follows: Don't react to your emotions, instead notice your emotions wash over you, identify the why and respond rationally instead of emotionally to the why. It's basically good advice given in the worst possible way with deceptive context
- jmye 3y ago
  Why is that good advice? If my father dies, why is it bad to be sad about it? Why is it wrong to cry when I’m sad? I think you’re completely off base in trying to make “respond rationally and with no emotion, ever” a universal rule, especially with regards to interacting with other people. It’s weird and robotic.
  - cutemonster 3y ago
    Or if a kid falls and hurts their arm. (Instead of shaming them, a hug is an alternative)
  - snapplebobapple 3y ago
    I am going to assume you are misunderstanding what I said rather than intentionally responding to what I didn't say, so here it goes: I did not say don't be sad. I sad don't react emotionally, instead understand the emotion you are feeling, identify the why and respond rationally to the why. It's not bad to be sad, it's bad to allow the sadness to force you into a stupid reaction. In your example the actual good advice dictates it's fine to cry, but don't let your sadness dictate doing something stupid like drinking too much, getting behind the wheel and getting a dui or worse. In my reply I acknowledged that someone saying what the op posted was almost always trying to communicate what I have said above and failing at it.
    - jmye 3y ago
      But that’s very much not what you responded to, nor is it even similar. What you responded to was “real men don’t cry.” Whatever you were trying to add was within that context, thus my reply. “Real men don’t cry” is not well-intentioned, nor is it just a poorly worded version of good advice.
      - snapplebobapple 3y ago
        I called it the crass version of good advice given in the worst possible way with deceptive context, which is true. I cannot recall a single instance of someone saying the original statement and not meaning some form of what I provided for context in my personal life outside of hollywood movies, where it seems to have become this toxic masculinity trope rather than a failure of explanation likely caused by a failure at heeding the actual advice themselves and reacting emotionally.

Exactly this. But even worse, this is frequently not said aloud. It is implicit in all of our interactions. Express too much emotion outside of certain narrow contexts, and other people (men and women alike) will look at you like you are a wimp. Nobody has to say a word.

AlexandrB 3y ago
I think it's worse than that. Traditional gender norms are perfectly ok with men expressing their emotions as long as those emotions are anger.

snapplebobapple 3y ago

That's just the crass version of the actually good advice that goes as follows: Don't react to your emotions, instead notice your emotions wash over you, identify the why and respond rationally instead of emotionally to the why. It's basically good advice given in the worst possible way with deceptive context

jmye 3y ago
Why is that good advice? If my father dies, why is it bad to be sad about it? Why is it wrong to cry when I’m sad? I think you’re completely off base in trying to make “respond rationally and with no emotion, ever” a universal rule, especially with regards to interacting with other people. It’s weird and robotic.
- cutemonster 3y ago
  Or if a kid falls and hurts their arm. (Instead of shaming them, a hug is an alternative)
- snapplebobapple 3y ago
  I am going to assume you are misunderstanding what I said rather than intentionally responding to what I didn't say, so here it goes: I did not say don't be sad. I sad don't react emotionally, instead understand the emotion you are feeling, identify the why and respond rationally to the why. It's not bad to be sad, it's bad to allow the sadness to force you into a stupid reaction. In your example the actual good advice dictates it's fine to cry, but don't let your sadness dictate doing something stupid like drinking too much, getting behind the wheel and getting a dui or worse. In my reply I acknowledged that someone saying what the op posted was almost always trying to communicate what I have said above and failing at it.
  - jmye 3y ago
    But that’s very much not what you responded to, nor is it even similar. What you responded to was “real men don’t cry.” Whatever you were trying to add was within that context, thus my reply. “Real men don’t cry” is not well-intentioned, nor is it just a poorly worded version of good advice.
    - snapplebobapple 3y ago
      I called it the crass version of good advice given in the worst possible way with deceptive context, which is true. I cannot recall a single instance of someone saying the original statement and not meaning some form of what I provided for context in my personal life outside of hollywood movies, where it seems to have become this toxic masculinity trope rather than a failure of explanation likely caused by a failure at heeding the actual advice themselves and reacting emotionally.