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Prediction: iOS will get a stricter form of "System Integrity Protection" (the macOS feature that allows you to disable most of the sandboxing and code signing

Prediction: iOS will get a stricter form of "System Integrity Protection" (the macOS feature that allows you to disable most of the sandboxing and code signing policy). The process for disabling it will be even more onerous and scary than it is on macOS, which requires rebooting into Recovery mode and typing a command into a terminal. Third-party app stores and other unapproved software will be available if the user disables SIP, but financial apps and the NFC chip will be blocked. Therefore nobody will do it, and Apple will say "told you so".

wmf 3y ago
Kids would absolutely disable SIP to get Fortnite and that's a scenario Apple doesn't want. More straightforward sideloading scenarios are more likely.
- pohuing 3y ago
  Even if that means they can't pay using their phone anymore? I know I removed magisk because my banking app stops working with just the manager installed.
  - wmf 3y ago
    Kids probably don't use Apple Pay or banking apps?
    - pohuing 3y ago
      I would be shocked if the majority of kids don't have a bank account nowadays. I know I did at 14 despite living in cash-dependent Germany.
- vineyardmike 3y ago
  Kids doing it absolutely OK with Apple. They’re not going to lose money there. The problem is the kids parents. When kid borrows dad’s phone and disables banking apps, dad will be upset. When aunt Jane ends up with 12 app stores and “Panterist” apps that don’t work the same as her daughter’s “Pinterest” app, she’s going to blame Apple. Maybe even clog up support. Just look at how much A/B testing causes problems on apps - now imagine the knockoff apps and the support required for unofficial apps. Regardless of your views on this, Apple claims everything on the App Store is “theirs”. Listen to their marketing copy and court statements. Those apps are theirs to sell, and they think they have a claim to the entire iPhone UX. They obviously can’t manage the crap that will flood the market from 3p app stores. They will absolutely trash the permissions or UX of these apps to protect their image. It’s obviously about the money, but I genuinely believe that Apple leadership will be reacting emotionally viewing those app stores as a threat. My suspicion is that they’ll make the iPhone “run software” but gate more of the SDK and on-device APIs behind contracts and NDAs. Gaining access to various docs and terms will get way more expensive, and become a legal affair instead of the mostly self-service process it is today. For example, no way they allow you to use HomeKit or WeatherKit or *Kit sdk with a non-AppStore contract.
m463 3y ago
What I want to know is - will I be able to control system processes and firewall my phone?
- wmf 3y ago
  Probably not.
idle_zealot 3y ago
There is language in the DMA that explicitly prohibits downgrading device capabilities or software features if a user chooses to exercise their new rights to install 3rd party apps and stores. It also states that 3rd party apps and stores must be allowed to access all hardware and software features of the device. The EU already predicted this move and curtailed it.
- josephcsible 3y ago
  Won't Apple just get other companies to do it for them? Consider that Google will already let you root your Pixel, but the McDonald's app will refuse to run if you do.
  - stale2002 3y ago
    And then apple gets sued, is forced to release their internal communications in the discovery phase of the lawsuit, and then when their illegal and anti-competitive actions to pressure other companies to do this becomes clear, then Apple gets fined X% of global revenue. Any hack or loophole that you can think of, the answer is "and then the EU forces apple to pay billions or 10s of billions of dollars".
    - josephcsible 3y ago
      Are either Google or McDonald's going to get fined billions, then, assuming that nothing with my example changes before March 6th?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - stale2002 3y ago
        Thats an interesting question. It is unclear what happens to co-collaborators of legal violations like that. But, it won't actually come to that, as Apple will simply follow the law, instead of risking 10s of billions of dollars in fines. Because thats what would happen to Apple if they tried to force other companies to go along with their law breaking schemes.

wmf 3y ago

Kids would absolutely disable SIP to get Fortnite and that's a scenario Apple doesn't want. More straightforward sideloading scenarios are more likely.

pohuing 3y ago
Even if that means they can't pay using their phone anymore? I know I removed magisk because my banking app stops working with just the manager installed.
- wmf 3y ago
  Kids probably don't use Apple Pay or banking apps?
  - pohuing 3y ago
    I would be shocked if the majority of kids don't have a bank account nowadays. I know I did at 14 despite living in cash-dependent Germany.
vineyardmike 3y ago
Kids doing it absolutely OK with Apple. They’re not going to lose money there. The problem is the kids parents. When kid borrows dad’s phone and disables banking apps, dad will be upset. When aunt Jane ends up with 12 app stores and “Panterist” apps that don’t work the same as her daughter’s “Pinterest” app, she’s going to blame Apple. Maybe even clog up support. Just look at how much A/B testing causes problems on apps - now imagine the knockoff apps and the support required for unofficial apps. Regardless of your views on this, Apple claims everything on the App Store is “theirs”. Listen to their marketing copy and court statements. Those apps are theirs to sell, and they think they have a claim to the entire iPhone UX. They obviously can’t manage the crap that will flood the market from 3p app stores. They will absolutely trash the permissions or UX of these apps to protect their image. It’s obviously about the money, but I genuinely believe that Apple leadership will be reacting emotionally viewing those app stores as a threat. My suspicion is that they’ll make the iPhone “run software” but gate more of the SDK and on-device APIs behind contracts and NDAs. Gaining access to various docs and terms will get way more expensive, and become a legal affair instead of the mostly self-service process it is today. For example, no way they allow you to use HomeKit or WeatherKit or *Kit sdk with a non-AppStore contract.

m463 3y ago

What I want to know is - will I be able to control system processes and firewall my phone?

wmf 3y ago
Probably not.

idle_zealot 3y ago

There is language in the DMA that explicitly prohibits downgrading device capabilities or software features if a user chooses to exercise their new rights to install 3rd party apps and stores. It also states that 3rd party apps and stores must be allowed to access all hardware and software features of the device. The EU already predicted this move and curtailed it.

josephcsible 3y ago
Won't Apple just get other companies to do it for them? Consider that Google will already let you root your Pixel, but the McDonald's app will refuse to run if you do.
- stale2002 3y ago
  And then apple gets sued, is forced to release their internal communications in the discovery phase of the lawsuit, and then when their illegal and anti-competitive actions to pressure other companies to do this becomes clear, then Apple gets fined X% of global revenue. Any hack or loophole that you can think of, the answer is "and then the EU forces apple to pay billions or 10s of billions of dollars".
  - josephcsible 3y ago
    Are either Google or McDonald's going to get fined billions, then, assuming that nothing with my example changes before March 6th?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - stale2002 3y ago
      Thats an interesting question. It is unclear what happens to co-collaborators of legal violations like that. But, it won't actually come to that, as Apple will simply follow the law, instead of risking 10s of billions of dollars in fines. Because thats what would happen to Apple if they tried to force other companies to go along with their law breaking schemes.