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My bias is that "systems analysis" is a fake bullshit job, but I'd be happy to be wrong on this one. My guess is that if I asked you to define what a Systems An
by feoren 3y ago
My bias is that "systems analysis" is a fake bullshit job, but I'd be happy to be wrong on this one. My guess is that if I asked you to define what a Systems Analyst is supposed to be doing, you'd tell me what I think a Software Engineer should be doing. Whereas you may think that a Software Engineer's job is to "write code". No. Writing code is like writing English. Someone whose job is to simply type out English words is a typist. Someone whose job is to simply type out code is also a typist, albeit one that needs to understand what a "for" loop does. The actual determination of exactly what the program should be doing, and why, and how that fits into all the other things it's doing, is Software Engineering. Someone who just wants to write "for" loops all day without doing that kind of analysis is not a Software Engineer, they are dead weight. Nothing. Doing what the compiler should be doing. But some business analyst who can't code is not a Software Engineer either; they are illiterate, like an novelist who "does the thinking" to figure out what all the characters should be doing, but expects someone else to do the actual typing. They are also dead weight.
Of course I don't expect you to debate all this in one HN thread. I'll browse through "Just Enough Structured Analysis" -- thanks for the recommendation -- but that will be in order to to make myself a better Software Engineer, not to become whatever a "Systems Analyst" is supposed to be. I guess if you expect a Systems Analyst to know how to write code as well as the other programmers, you are simply describing what I call a Software Engineer, and what you're thinking of as a "non-analyst programmer" is really just a typist that should be replaced by the compiler.
- dragonwriter 3y ago> My guess is that if I asked you to define what a Systems Analyst is supposed to be doing, you'd tell me what I think a Software Engineer should be doing. Possibly: I'd certainly agree that what a Systems Analyst traditionally does is exactly software engineering, whereas whether “software engineers” do that, or are selected for the skills to do it, is rather mixed across the industry. The explosion of the Software Engineer title for programmers did correspond with the downswing in Systems Analyst as a role, but it often was not accompanied by the role and expected skillset of the retitled programmers changing, if anything, it was accompanied by a greater focus in selection in narrow coding skills. > Someone whose job is to simply type out English words is a typist. Someone whose job is to simply type out code is also a typist, A programmer who is not a system analyst is not just typing out code someone else is written the way a typist types out natural language that someone else has written. They are still solving problems — sometimes fairly complex ones — with code. And there are probably environments where you need many more of them than people doing the rest of what Systems Analysis entails, and in a world where instead coding skills were devalued that would be a problem.
- tuatoru 3y agoSoftware Engineers are misnamed. They do not register with a professional body and commit to a code of ethics; nor can they be disbarred from working if the regulating Society of Software Engineers decides they have failed to work to the standards required. Software engineers are mostly know-nothing cowboys. The fact that you haven't previously heard of "Just Enough Software Analysis" confirms me in my impression that there are no standards and no regulation. If you want to git gud, also read "Quality Before Design: Exploring Requirements" by Don Gause and Gerald Weinberg.
- feoren 3y ago[dead]
- another2another 3y agoThere actually used to be a job description "Programmer/Analyst" or "Analyst/Programmer" - in the old days you were expected to do it all yourself.
- feoren 3y agoOf course: commonly abbreviated as "Analrammer" ... on second thought, let's go with "Programalyst"
- ahhfgshando6698 3y ago[dead]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]