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Nigerien women have, currently 6 children, on average. This means that the population doubles roughly every 20 years. You have to rebuild 100% of the country's

Nigerien women have, currently 6 children, on average. This means that the population doubles roughly every 20 years. You have to rebuild 100% of the country's infrastructure every 20 years, just to break even. This is the problem. France (nor european countries) are responsible for Africa's fertilty rates. France and french soldiers have been fighting to protect those countries against Jihadism. France doesn't depend on Niger for Uranium, and the royalties are low because it's very hard to extract Uranium in a landlocked semi-desertic country with no road nor proper power grid. Overall, I agree that France should leave this unprofitable mining operation - I'm sure that the Chinese or the Russians will propose much better deals!

aatd86 3y ago
Please don't start spreading misinformation. Waging wars has nothing to do with fertility rates. A bit strange that they tend to do that at times, and at others when it's favorable to them, all of a sudden a coup is not a coup. And France does depend on Niger for its uranium, check your facts, Niger is in 3rd position. It's also well known that Areva hasn't been up to notch with environmental safety wrt its extraction and handling of radioactive garbage process. Locals are suffering. It has nothing to do with how hard it alledgedly is to extract uranium. They wouldn't do that in Europe. Period. How is there no infrastructure and the country has such natural resources being exported is a better question. The exchange is obviously unfair. The country is free to do business with whoever they'd like. Not wanting to do business with the French government et.al. has nothing to do with the Chinese or Russians. They are not obligated. It's a free market, not slavery. And the so-called jihadism excuse, why is there no jihadism in the UAE, it's not jihadism, it's coopted poverty.
- slim 3y ago
  allow me to disagree. fertility is related to war. if niger had a stable state, they could implement a fertility control program like a lot of african countries
  - aatd86 3y ago
    No, as it stands it is irrelevant. Only the presidency changed but there is no civil war. Let's not start spreading unrelated excuses to justify a military intervention that would do more harm than good. As it stands, the Nigerien military has also explained that there had been roadblocks in the fight against jihadism because they were not allowed to coordinate with the new governements of Mali and Burkina which have veered against French interests. That was one of the main reasons given for the coup. It has nothing to do with too many people being born. Which countries with such policies are you speaking of by the way? (I'm curious, I honestly don't know) Besides, Nigeriens are currently 25 million which is less than half of the French population in a country that is twice the size. Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't? It's impossible not to notice that former French colonies are often poorer than their British, Italian (Libya before the French, once again, pushed for a military intervention and embarked the US in that campaign) or Portuguese counterparts. The only way fertility is problematic is that the population is young and the infrastructures that should have been built AND maintained... haven't. Along with education and the health sector. All the more reasons to understand why they can seem to resent the French government (and not France in general as is depicted in some media). Frankly, if solutions haven't been found after all these years, they simply haven't been sought. Going from first principles, if one wants to solve migrations and whatnot, just let them develop themselves properly.
    - realusername 3y ago
      > Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't? Well because Uranium just isn't gas or petrol, there's no way around it. There's a very limited amount of buyers and most of the actual value is in the power plant. Nobody ever got rich from a Uranium mine. What will probably happen is they will sell it cheaper to China instead and get less money.
      - aatd86 3y ago
        Well, there are other exports. There might even be oil. The neighbor Chad has some and isn't any better. Checked, oil has been discovered in Niger in the 70's...so yeah... And they are still poor?! And even then, they should have exchanged a package: Exploitation rights against revenue with costs of infra + maintenance deducted. There needs to be roads or trains assuredly and whatnot for those exports to transit. Who cares if they get a better bargain from the US, the Chinese or whoever else. That's competition. That's supply and demand. That's how they should get the most of what they have. No need to be so sour about it.
- Kretinsky 3y ago
  Niger represented on average 17.9% of the french Uranium ore imports, between 2005 and 2020. Hardly a strategic supplier - Niger could actually be replaced overnight, we're talking about <1bn$ amounts here. Uranium ore is easy to find, refining it is where the value is. Also, you can't complain about poverty while refusing to see that fertility rates are a problem. Same with wars, many, many wars are due to population surplus and poverty. Add ethnic competition to the mix, which is typical in Africa, and you'll get the perfect recipe for war.
  - aatd86 3y ago
    Nigeria seems to do better in spite of those fertility rates you speak of. And yeah, how being the second or third exporter is not being a strategic supplier when the rest of the exports basically depend on Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan? If you have to switch up your whole supply-chain, don't you think that the price will be steep? As I've said, Niger still has less than half the population of France on twice the territory. They should have been out-of-poverty a long time ago if the fertility rates were that high. And the fact that wars are due to multi ethnicity is a masquerade. African empires of yesteryear have always been multi-ethnic. They were stable until colonization (Middle-East incursions which brought slavery and then Europeans who partaked in and expanded) So no, I don't believe that in countries where there are so many inter-ethnic marriages, multiplicity of ethnicities are a valid reason to scaremonger people with the possibility of wars.
    - Kretinsky 3y ago
      It's not the rank that counts, but the overall share. Niger's uranium ore can easily be replaced with Australian or Canadian ore in the next years. The price of ore in the final electricity cost is meaningless. Niger is the top recipient of international aid in the region, worth 1.8bn$ last year. French taxpayers contributed 131M$. Most of the population still live under the poverty line (2.15$ a day). Where will Niger get the capital to double its power grid in the next 20 years? Territory size is meaningless, by your standard Hong Kong should be poorer than Russia given the extreme density differences. Most of Niger land is aride and can't be cultivated anyway, so food needs to be imported. Parabolic population growth will only make things worse. Regarding multi-ethnic empires, can you give me a source? I believe that it's mainly tribal oppression against enslaved dominated ethnicities. Similar to Pygmee slaves still owned by Bantu people. Improving the region would mean understanding what's wrong instead of blaming the white men for all of the trouble. Not sure we're on the good path.
aaomidi 3y ago
What a take. France is literally still forcing multiple African countries to use CFA. There are FOIA reports that the nato strikes on Libya were because the French president of the time wanted to have a better “standing” at home. Same bombing that led to the failed state that has now caused tens of thousands of people to die from a flooding. France, and Europe have a ton of responsibility in what’s happening.
- Kretinsky 3y ago
  How is France forcing those countries to use the CFA? Some are leaving, I didn't see any friction: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/west-african-countries-to-stop-using-cfa-franc/1680570 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/west-african-countries-to-st... In general, the CFA caused lower interest rates to the countries using it, which is good for developed economies. The people complaining about the lost interest (I haven't seen a real proof about this btw) never speak about the massive french subsidies to the western african states (>$2bn), that dwarfs any retained income from the CFA treasury. Ho, wait they are also complaining about this! https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la-schizophrenie-de-laide-francaise-au-developpement-decortiquee/ https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la... So yes, let's close the southern border, push back the boats and never set foot nor send money there. I'm all for this.

aatd86 3y ago

Please don't start spreading misinformation. Waging wars has nothing to do with fertility rates. A bit strange that they tend to do that at times, and at others when it's favorable to them, all of a sudden a coup is not a coup. And France does depend on Niger for its uranium, check your facts, Niger is in 3rd position. It's also well known that Areva hasn't been up to notch with environmental safety wrt its extraction and handling of radioactive garbage process. Locals are suffering. It has nothing to do with how hard it alledgedly is to extract uranium. They wouldn't do that in Europe. Period. How is there no infrastructure and the country has such natural resources being exported is a better question. The exchange is obviously unfair. The country is free to do business with whoever they'd like. Not wanting to do business with the French government et.al. has nothing to do with the Chinese or Russians. They are not obligated. It's a free market, not slavery. And the so-called jihadism excuse, why is there no jihadism in the UAE, it's not jihadism, it's coopted poverty.

slim 3y ago
allow me to disagree. fertility is related to war. if niger had a stable state, they could implement a fertility control program like a lot of african countries
- aatd86 3y ago
  No, as it stands it is irrelevant. Only the presidency changed but there is no civil war. Let's not start spreading unrelated excuses to justify a military intervention that would do more harm than good. As it stands, the Nigerien military has also explained that there had been roadblocks in the fight against jihadism because they were not allowed to coordinate with the new governements of Mali and Burkina which have veered against French interests. That was one of the main reasons given for the coup. It has nothing to do with too many people being born. Which countries with such policies are you speaking of by the way? (I'm curious, I honestly don't know) Besides, Nigeriens are currently 25 million which is less than half of the French population in a country that is twice the size. Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't? It's impossible not to notice that former French colonies are often poorer than their British, Italian (Libya before the French, once again, pushed for a military intervention and embarked the US in that campaign) or Portuguese counterparts. The only way fertility is problematic is that the population is young and the infrastructures that should have been built AND maintained... haven't. Along with education and the health sector. All the more reasons to understand why they can seem to resent the French government (and not France in general as is depicted in some media). Frankly, if solutions haven't been found after all these years, they simply haven't been sought. Going from first principles, if one wants to solve migrations and whatnot, just let them develop themselves properly.
  - realusername 3y ago
    > Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't? Well because Uranium just isn't gas or petrol, there's no way around it. There's a very limited amount of buyers and most of the actual value is in the power plant. Nobody ever got rich from a Uranium mine. What will probably happen is they will sell it cheaper to China instead and get less money.
    - aatd86 3y ago
      Well, there are other exports. There might even be oil. The neighbor Chad has some and isn't any better. Checked, oil has been discovered in Niger in the 70's...so yeah... And they are still poor?! And even then, they should have exchanged a package: Exploitation rights against revenue with costs of infra + maintenance deducted. There needs to be roads or trains assuredly and whatnot for those exports to transit. Who cares if they get a better bargain from the US, the Chinese or whoever else. That's competition. That's supply and demand. That's how they should get the most of what they have. No need to be so sour about it.
Kretinsky 3y ago
Niger represented on average 17.9% of the french Uranium ore imports, between 2005 and 2020. Hardly a strategic supplier - Niger could actually be replaced overnight, we're talking about <1bn$ amounts here. Uranium ore is easy to find, refining it is where the value is. Also, you can't complain about poverty while refusing to see that fertility rates are a problem. Same with wars, many, many wars are due to population surplus and poverty. Add ethnic competition to the mix, which is typical in Africa, and you'll get the perfect recipe for war.
- aatd86 3y ago
  Nigeria seems to do better in spite of those fertility rates you speak of. And yeah, how being the second or third exporter is not being a strategic supplier when the rest of the exports basically depend on Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan? If you have to switch up your whole supply-chain, don't you think that the price will be steep? As I've said, Niger still has less than half the population of France on twice the territory. They should have been out-of-poverty a long time ago if the fertility rates were that high. And the fact that wars are due to multi ethnicity is a masquerade. African empires of yesteryear have always been multi-ethnic. They were stable until colonization (Middle-East incursions which brought slavery and then Europeans who partaked in and expanded) So no, I don't believe that in countries where there are so many inter-ethnic marriages, multiplicity of ethnicities are a valid reason to scaremonger people with the possibility of wars.
  - Kretinsky 3y ago
    It's not the rank that counts, but the overall share. Niger's uranium ore can easily be replaced with Australian or Canadian ore in the next years. The price of ore in the final electricity cost is meaningless. Niger is the top recipient of international aid in the region, worth 1.8bn$ last year. French taxpayers contributed 131M$. Most of the population still live under the poverty line (2.15$ a day). Where will Niger get the capital to double its power grid in the next 20 years? Territory size is meaningless, by your standard Hong Kong should be poorer than Russia given the extreme density differences. Most of Niger land is aride and can't be cultivated anyway, so food needs to be imported. Parabolic population growth will only make things worse. Regarding multi-ethnic empires, can you give me a source? I believe that it's mainly tribal oppression against enslaved dominated ethnicities. Similar to Pygmee slaves still owned by Bantu people. Improving the region would mean understanding what's wrong instead of blaming the white men for all of the trouble. Not sure we're on the good path.

aaomidi 3y ago

What a take. France is literally still forcing multiple African countries to use CFA. There are FOIA reports that the nato strikes on Libya were because the French president of the time wanted to have a better “standing” at home. Same bombing that led to the failed state that has now caused tens of thousands of people to die from a flooding. France, and Europe have a ton of responsibility in what’s happening.

Kretinsky 3y ago
How is France forcing those countries to use the CFA? Some are leaving, I didn't see any friction: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/west-african-countries-to-stop-using-cfa-franc/1680570 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/west-african-countries-to-st... In general, the CFA caused lower interest rates to the countries using it, which is good for developed economies. The people complaining about the lost interest (I haven't seen a real proof about this btw) never speak about the massive french subsidies to the western african states (>$2bn), that dwarfs any retained income from the CFA treasury. Ho, wait they are also complaining about this! https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la-schizophrenie-de-laide-francaise-au-developpement-decortiquee/ https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la... So yes, let's close the southern border, push back the boats and never set foot nor send money there. I'm all for this.