4 ms·
Yeah. Wage stagnation, gender roles which become increasingly impossible to meet in the modern world, the price of property, commuter town hell, social alienati
by kamray23 3y ago
Yeah. Wage stagnation, gender roles which become increasingly impossible to meet in the modern world, the price of property, commuter town hell, social alienation, lack of third places, even toxic masculinity, all of these are conversations about things that hurt men. And with gender roles expected of men, to be economically successful, to look a certain way and wear certain things and have certain kinds of jobs and a certain kind of car, none of which you can afford anymore, not in a million years – that's a place where maleness, masculinity and despair comes in very explicitly into economic questions and which is talked about a lot.
Maybe don't stick your head in the sand the moment someone says "toxic masculinity". It means something which hurts men, too. Every economic conversation and conversation on gender roles touches on this specific kind of despair and anxiety in the universe. If you look hard enough, even consumerist vanilla and milk-toast pieces like the Barbie movie take on talking about the expectations placed on men by themselves and what it feels like to wake up to a society where nobody meets those anymore.
For Jacobin to write this is absolutely bizarre. It's almost as if it's aimed more towards people on the right than on the left, except it vindicates the idea that the left never touches the concept of men, as if women were the only thing that existed on the left, which just isn't true. It's always been an everyone club, it's always been a club for those who work for their money and for those sympathetic to them. And it's a place where those people talk about those problems which hurt them. That includes and has always included men.
- valbaca 3y agoExceptionally well-put. Thank you
- Jensson 3y ago> Maybe don't stick your head in the sand the moment someone says "toxic masculinity". It means something which hurts men, too. The left however tends to shun the fact that a lot of the toxic masculinity comes from women and their expectations on men and boys. There isn't anything men can do to stop toxic masculinity until women stops propagating it, and the left sees no problem with women and teachers propagating toxic masculinity, at least I've never seen them talk about it as a problem that needs fixing.
- foogazi 3y agoThis comment seems way off For example women and queer in armed forces are routinely mocked by the right as feminization and weakening of the military
- norwalkbear 3y agoThis comment seems right on. Women calling men under 6ft children on social media. Lesbians shaming men for being short or weaker than them. Of course the gate is rising
- igetspam 3y agoYes. Those women are, in fact, supporting a culture of toxic masculinity. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove though. It seems like whataboutism
- norwalkbear 3y agoYou wish it was whataboutism, but in a topic about mens mental health, it's absolutely relevant
- igetspam 3y ago> The left however tends to shun the fact that a lot of the toxic masculinity comes from women and their expectations on men and boys This just isn't true. The fact that men AND women are taught this "manly man" crap by both their mothers and fathers is commonly discussed. It's often reported that women don't self reflect but follow any prominent feminist and you'll hear them talking about this often. > There isn't anything men can do to stop toxic masculinity until women stops propagating it This is both false and a poor human excuse for bad behavior. You can have better conversations. You can model better behavior. You can call out misogyny. It's fun or comfortable or do but it's with your control. Don't push all the hard work to others. Do it yourself. (I do. It's not fun but it's important.) > the left sees no problem with women and teachers propagating toxic masculinity, at least I've never seen them talk about it as a problem that needs fixing. Be honest with yourself. Where are you looking? Articles like this that make it seem like we should over index on self inflicted wounds or aces where women talk about the difficulties they face because of heavily patriarchal society?