4 ms·

Those aren't political rights, those are social norms. If a man does any of those things, it's frowned upon, but if a woman tried to vote in the 19th century sh

Those aren't political rights, those are social norms. If a man does any of those things, it's frowned upon, but if a woman tried to vote in the 19th century she'd be thrown in jail. I'm totally on board with people wearing whatever, it's a free country, but equating political rights with social norms is a false dichotomy.

breadbreadbread 3y ago
it's not as black and white as you make it out to be. those social norms affect men's ability to endure hardship, find community, and empathize with the struggles of others. The article is not just talking about written rights, it is talking about achievement and happiness, which are emergent from a combination of written policy and social norms. I disagree with the headline that "the left needs to talk about it" because fundamentally we do every day. The problem is that men tense up when we talk about things like "patriarchy" and "feminism", despite every piece of literature that explains that patriarchy and traditional (toxic) masculinity are actively harmful for men too. So men aren't listening to leftist talk about these issues and need to be baby-fed them using different words.
tenacious_tuna 3y ago
> equating political rights with social norms is a false dichotomy. But one begets the other, no? See also all this noise from TN and FL about crossdressing being a sex offense. People are more okay with women looking masculine than men looking feminine, and now we're seeing laws that reflect that. Similarly, because men aren't viewed as nurturing or whatever, they're far more likely to lose custody cases in court. There's absolutely tight bindings between political rights and social norms, and similarly I think there's a lot to be learned from the contrast between men and women's distinct challenges.

4 ms·

Those aren't political rights, those are social norms. If a man does any of those things, it's frowned upon, but if a woman tried to vote in the 19th century sh

by muricula 3y ago

breadbreadbread 3y ago
it's not as black and white as you make it out to be. those social norms affect men's ability to endure hardship, find community, and empathize with the struggles of others. The article is not just talking about written rights, it is talking about achievement and happiness, which are emergent from a combination of written policy and social norms. I disagree with the headline that "the left needs to talk about it" because fundamentally we do every day. The problem is that men tense up when we talk about things like "patriarchy" and "feminism", despite every piece of literature that explains that patriarchy and traditional (toxic) masculinity are actively harmful for men too. So men aren't listening to leftist talk about these issues and need to be baby-fed them using different words.
tenacious_tuna 3y ago
> equating political rights with social norms is a false dichotomy. But one begets the other, no? See also all this noise from TN and FL about crossdressing being a sex offense. People are more okay with women looking masculine than men looking feminine, and now we're seeing laws that reflect that. Similarly, because men aren't viewed as nurturing or whatever, they're far more likely to lose custody cases in court. There's absolutely tight bindings between political rights and social norms, and similarly I think there's a lot to be learned from the contrast between men and women's distinct challenges.