6 ms·

French police arrest reporter over leaked secrets

54 points by fatfingerd 3y ago

aatd86 3y ago
If the French government really wanted to solve the problem of "passeurs" appropriately, they should help these countries develop instead of e.g. pushing for wars in countries where there is none such as Niger currently. But the appeal of cheap uranium is too strong apparently when the other suppliers are too close to Russia geographically, I guess. People should come first. It's very disappointing.
- Kretinsky 3y ago
  Nigerien women have, currently 6 children, on average. This means that the population doubles roughly every 20 years. You have to rebuild 100% of the country's infrastructure every 20 years, just to break even. This is the problem. France (nor european countries) are responsible for Africa's fertilty rates. France and french soldiers have been fighting to protect those countries against Jihadism. France doesn't depend on Niger for Uranium, and the royalties are low because it's very hard to extract Uranium in a landlocked semi-desertic country with no road nor proper power grid. Overall, I agree that France should leave this unprofitable mining operation - I'm sure that the Chinese or the Russians will propose much better deals!
  - aatd86 3y ago
    Please don't start spreading misinformation. Waging wars has nothing to do with fertility rates. A bit strange that they tend to do that at times, and at others when it's favorable to them, all of a sudden a coup is not a coup. And France does depend on Niger for its uranium, check your facts, Niger is in 3rd position. It's also well known that Areva hasn't been up to notch with environmental safety wrt its extraction and handling of radioactive garbage process. Locals are suffering. It has nothing to do with how hard it alledgedly is to extract uranium. They wouldn't do that in Europe. Period. How is there no infrastructure and the country has such natural resources being exported is a better question. The exchange is obviously unfair. The country is free to do business with whoever they'd like. Not wanting to do business with the French government et.al. has nothing to do with the Chinese or Russians. They are not obligated. It's a free market, not slavery. And the so-called jihadism excuse, why is there no jihadism in the UAE, it's not jihadism, it's coopted poverty.
    - slim 3y ago
      allow me to disagree. fertility is related to war. if niger had a stable state, they could implement a fertility control program like a lot of african countries
      - aatd86 3y ago
        No, as it stands it is irrelevant. Only the presidency changed but there is no civil war. Let's not start spreading unrelated excuses to justify a military intervention that would do more harm than good. As it stands, the Nigerien military has also explained that there had been roadblocks in the fight against jihadism because they were not allowed to coordinate with the new governements of Mali and Burkina which have veered against French interests. That was one of the main reasons given for the coup. It has nothing to do with too many people being born. Which countries with such policies are you speaking of by the way? (I'm curious, I honestly don't know) Besides, Nigeriens are currently 25 million which is less than half of the French population in a country that is twice the size. Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't? It's impossible not to notice that former French colonies are often poorer than their British, Italian (Libya before the French, once again, pushed for a military intervention and embarked the US in that campaign) or Portuguese counterparts. The only way fertility is problematic is that the population is young and the infrastructures that should have been built AND maintained... haven't. Along with education and the health sector. All the more reasons to understand why they can seem to resent the French government (and not France in general as is depicted in some media). Frankly, if solutions haven't been found after all these years, they simply haven't been sought. Going from first principles, if one wants to solve migrations and whatnot, just let them develop themselves properly.
        realusername 3y ago
        > Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't? Well because Uranium just isn't gas or petrol, there's no way around it. There's a very limited amount of buyers and most of the actual value is in the power plant. Nobody ever got rich from a Uranium mine. What will probably happen is they will sell it cheaper to China instead and get less money.
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    What a take. France is literally still forcing multiple African countries to use CFA. There are FOIA reports that the nato strikes on Libya were because the French president of the time wanted to have a better “standing” at home. Same bombing that led to the failed state that has now caused tens of thousands of people to die from a flooding. France, and Europe have a ton of responsibility in what’s happening.
    - Kretinsky 3y ago
      How is France forcing those countries to use the CFA? Some are leaving, I didn't see any friction: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/west-african-countries-to-stop-using-cfa-franc/1680570 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/west-african-countries-to-st... In general, the CFA caused lower interest rates to the countries using it, which is good for developed economies. The people complaining about the lost interest (I haven't seen a real proof about this btw) never speak about the massive french subsidies to the western african states (>$2bn), that dwarfs any retained income from the CFA treasury. Ho, wait they are also complaining about this! https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la-schizophrenie-de-laide-francaise-au-developpement-decortiquee/ https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la... So yes, let's close the southern border, push back the boats and never set foot nor send money there. I'm all for this.
- jszymborski 3y ago
  I was under the impression that Canada is the second largest producer of Uranium.
  - aatd86 3y ago
    Possibly. Orano(ex Areva) operates there as well. But France depends/ was depending mainly on uranium from Kazakhstan, Niger and Uzbekistan.
    - realusername 3y ago
      I have no doubt that those imports will be replaced by one of those other exporters, it's not that hard.
      - aatd86 3y ago
        Well the point is that these two other major suppliers are very close geographically to Russia. So I doubt it will be them. And even then, the price will simply not be the same.
        Kretinsky 3y ago
        Price of Uranium is meaningless in nuclear electricity production. Even if there is a shortage, the French can recycle fuel: https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/fuel-recycling/mixed-oxide-fuel-mox.aspx https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-c...
        aatd86 3y ago
        It's still very geo-strategic. People can refuse to sell. France has historic links with Niger which is the reason Niger is the EU 2nd most important source for that ore. What does France bring to the table in the EU? Its access to these resources amongst other things.
        3y ago

54 points by fatfingerd 3y ago

If the French government really wanted to solve the problem of "passeurs" appropriately, they should help these countries develop instead of e.g. pushing for wars in countries where there is none such as Niger currently. But the appeal of cheap uranium is too strong apparently when the other suppliers are too close to Russia geographically, I guess. People should come first. It's very disappointing.

Kretinsky 3y ago
Nigerien women have, currently 6 children, on average. This means that the population doubles roughly every 20 years. You have to rebuild 100% of the country's infrastructure every 20 years, just to break even. This is the problem. France (nor european countries) are responsible for Africa's fertilty rates. France and french soldiers have been fighting to protect those countries against Jihadism. France doesn't depend on Niger for Uranium, and the royalties are low because it's very hard to extract Uranium in a landlocked semi-desertic country with no road nor proper power grid. Overall, I agree that France should leave this unprofitable mining operation - I'm sure that the Chinese or the Russians will propose much better deals!
- aatd86 3y ago
  Please don't start spreading misinformation. Waging wars has nothing to do with fertility rates. A bit strange that they tend to do that at times, and at others when it's favorable to them, all of a sudden a coup is not a coup. And France does depend on Niger for its uranium, check your facts, Niger is in 3rd position. It's also well known that Areva hasn't been up to notch with environmental safety wrt its extraction and handling of radioactive garbage process. Locals are suffering. It has nothing to do with how hard it alledgedly is to extract uranium. They wouldn't do that in Europe. Period. How is there no infrastructure and the country has such natural resources being exported is a better question. The exchange is obviously unfair. The country is free to do business with whoever they'd like. Not wanting to do business with the French government et.al. has nothing to do with the Chinese or Russians. They are not obligated. It's a free market, not slavery. And the so-called jihadism excuse, why is there no jihadism in the UAE, it's not jihadism, it's coopted poverty.
  - slim 3y ago
    allow me to disagree. fertility is related to war. if niger had a stable state, they could implement a fertility control program like a lot of african countries
    - aatd86 3y ago
      No, as it stands it is irrelevant. Only the presidency changed but there is no civil war. Let's not start spreading unrelated excuses to justify a military intervention that would do more harm than good. As it stands, the Nigerien military has also explained that there had been roadblocks in the fight against jihadism because they were not allowed to coordinate with the new governements of Mali and Burkina which have veered against French interests. That was one of the main reasons given for the coup. It has nothing to do with too many people being born. Which countries with such policies are you speaking of by the way? (I'm curious, I honestly don't know) Besides, Nigeriens are currently 25 million which is less than half of the French population in a country that is twice the size. Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't? It's impossible not to notice that former French colonies are often poorer than their British, Italian (Libya before the French, once again, pushed for a military intervention and embarked the US in that campaign) or Portuguese counterparts. The only way fertility is problematic is that the population is young and the infrastructures that should have been built AND maintained... haven't. Along with education and the health sector. All the more reasons to understand why they can seem to resent the French government (and not France in general as is depicted in some media). Frankly, if solutions haven't been found after all these years, they simply haven't been sought. Going from first principles, if one wants to solve migrations and whatnot, just let them develop themselves properly.
      - realusername 3y ago
        > Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't? Well because Uranium just isn't gas or petrol, there's no way around it. There's a very limited amount of buyers and most of the actual value is in the power plant. Nobody ever got rich from a Uranium mine. What will probably happen is they will sell it cheaper to China instead and get less money.
- aaomidi 3y ago
  What a take. France is literally still forcing multiple African countries to use CFA. There are FOIA reports that the nato strikes on Libya were because the French president of the time wanted to have a better “standing” at home. Same bombing that led to the failed state that has now caused tens of thousands of people to die from a flooding. France, and Europe have a ton of responsibility in what’s happening.
  - Kretinsky 3y ago
    How is France forcing those countries to use the CFA? Some are leaving, I didn't see any friction: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/west-african-countries-to-stop-using-cfa-franc/1680570 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/west-african-countries-to-st... In general, the CFA caused lower interest rates to the countries using it, which is good for developed economies. The people complaining about the lost interest (I haven't seen a real proof about this btw) never speak about the massive french subsidies to the western african states (>$2bn), that dwarfs any retained income from the CFA treasury. Ho, wait they are also complaining about this! https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la-schizophrenie-de-laide-francaise-au-developpement-decortiquee/ https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la... So yes, let's close the southern border, push back the boats and never set foot nor send money there. I'm all for this.
jszymborski 3y ago
I was under the impression that Canada is the second largest producer of Uranium.
- aatd86 3y ago
  Possibly. Orano(ex Areva) operates there as well. But France depends/ was depending mainly on uranium from Kazakhstan, Niger and Uzbekistan.
  - realusername 3y ago
    I have no doubt that those imports will be replaced by one of those other exporters, it's not that hard.
    - aatd86 3y ago
      Well the point is that these two other major suppliers are very close geographically to Russia. So I doubt it will be them. And even then, the price will simply not be the same.
      - Kretinsky 3y ago
        Price of Uranium is meaningless in nuclear electricity production. Even if there is a shortage, the French can recycle fuel: https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/fuel-recycling/mixed-oxide-fuel-mox.aspx https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-c...
        aatd86 3y ago
        It's still very geo-strategic. People can refuse to sell. France has historic links with Niger which is the reason Niger is the EU 2nd most important source for that ore. What does France bring to the table in the EU? Its access to these resources amongst other things.
        3y ago