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I mean, any security camera that does anything with the cloud should never make it onto a recommendation list in the first place. I'm not sure if the product e
by drunner 3y ago
I mean, any security camera that does anything with the cloud should never make it onto a recommendation list in the first place.
I'm not sure if the product exists, but something that replicates a homemade setup would be amazing.
Think of a bundled camera(s) + raspberry pi + 1tb backup drive or whatever that you can only access over your own dedicated personal wireguard vpn (or tailscale, something like that), but sold as a retail bundle.
Of course, that would cut out all the SaaS/app data selling aspect so it seems unlikely to happen.
- bootsmann 3y agoAn IP camera that requires the customer to set-up and secure outside access themselves will not sell to end users. The market is just too small and anyone who has the skills to secure this stuff themselves doesn't have to rely on a consumer grade product.
- asdff 3y agoMe, I am a potential customer! I have the skills to set this stuff up but don't have the $$$$$ to go with a commercial grade solution. Something more in the raspberry pi paradigm of price to performance is exactly what I'm looking for in this space. Just give me a cheap camera and access to io.
- executive 3y agoWyze offers RTSP firmware: https://support.wyze.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026245231-Wyze-Cam-RTSP https://support.wyze.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026245231-Wyze...
- gnicholas 3y agoUnless I'm misreading, it's not available at this time: > RTSP was considered a beta feature and we are currently assessing the path forward as the firmware versions have aged quite a bit. We have removed the firmware files for these versions for now and we’ll update the pages when plans are finalized. Please note that firmware files take a while to work on and test so you may not see an update in the near future.
- grvdrm 3y agoIdea: could you cut off external network access and then point a server (e.g. HomeAssistant server on RPi) to the RTSP feed from the camera within your network?
- mistrial9 3y agoyour certainty is not based on reality.. "pet rocks" sold millions; BetaMax failed; great movies went unwatched, where stupid schlock got paid. Markets are not predictable entirely at all.
- bootsmann 3y agoThis is an established market, we are looking at the the survivors. It's reasonable to assume that a product we come up with within 5 minutes has been tried and didn't make the cut.
- ynniv 3y agoThat's the architecture of Ubiquiti Protect: https://blog.ui.com/2019/01/09/introducing-unifi-protect/ https://blog.ui.com/2019/01/09/introducing-unifi-protect/
- dylan604 3y agoWhat is the current verdict on Ubiquiti being trustworthy after the incidents with Krebs?
- arwineap 3y agoUbiquiti is trustworthy. Krebs jumped the gun on that accusation and apologized https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/08/final-thoughts-on-ubiquiti/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/08/final-thoughts-on-ubiqui...
- bastardoperator 3y agoIf you're cool with the NSA backdoor that got leaked yesterday. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37570407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37570407
- dylan604 3y agoThanks. I thought I had recently seen the Ubiquity name in the headlines again after the Krebs debacle. I just didn't realize it was that recently.
- bbatha 3y agoThat’s not ubiquity specific that’s all cavium based networking gear which is a substantial fraction of all networking gear. I’d be shocked if similar back doors aren’t present in other common network chips.
- criddell 3y agoFor home security stuff? None of it will be exposed to the internet so I don't particularly care.
- cortesoft 3y agoThe market for a product that requires the buyer to setup a VPN is not going to be very large. You seriously overestimate the average tech competence of people. It needs to be something you just plug in and it works.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y agocloud camera's aren't that either, most require the download of an app, signing up, configuring the camera, etc. You could just as easily give local camera's the "printer" treatment, and most people are somehow able to successfully setup printers on their PC's.
- cooper_ganglia 3y agoWyze camera setup is pretty straightforward. Add a camera in the app, it opens a QR code on the phone screen, and you just scan that with the Wyze cam. It seems fool-proof. With that being said, I did still have to setup the Wyze cameras for my 50 year old tech-inclined dad, haha.
- jszymborski 3y agoI could, however, imagine you buying a "$BRAND hub" for your "$BRAND camera" and other $BRAND IoT that ostensibly set-ups a tailscale kinda thing you can access via the $BRAND App, all while not touching the cloud. It's ostensibly the same UX as the current cloud set-up, only without the operational costs of running a cloud service.
- rimunroe 3y ago> I could, however, imagine you buying a "$BRAND hub" for your "$BRAND camera" and other $BRAND IoT that ostensibly set-ups a tailscale kinda thing you can access via the $BRAND App, all while not touching the cloud. I'm confused by the use of the word "ostensibly" there. Do you mean that the makers would claim that it would set up a tailscale kinda thing for you while doing something completely different to avoid the cloud?
- GauntletWizard 3y agoI consider offsite storage a must-have feature for surveillance equipment, because one of the prime threats is that the thieves carry off the surveillance equipment itself. With modern WiFi cameras without mounting wires and cheap plastic mounting points, that's real easy, and if you had a physical server to store the recordings it would be a target as well; the history of surveillance systems is littered with examples of "The thieves stole the tapes, too". Finding someone trustworthy enough to store your offsite footage, though, is a real problem. If only there were some sort of union of peoples capable of causing consequences for companies that act as poor stewards of data.
- mptest 3y ago>If only there were some sort of union of peoples capable of causing consequences for companies that act as poor stewards of data. Would be a great idea! Your wish is granted! Only one catch. The only consequence they can actually level is an insignificant fine ~ 1% of the profit they've made violating the law. Oh, plus a pinky pwomise to not do it again after a finger wag, or they'll get real angry, and the fine will be UP TO a whopping FOUR percent of profits!!! Seriously though, re offsite storage, one could encrypt all data locally and then offsite anywhere, right? Could be google drive for all you care.
- sbarre 3y agoMost thieves are smash-and-grab, and not smart or motivated enough to go seek out your NAS to take with them. Danny Ocean is not breaking into your house. Besides, if the thieves were savvy enough to find and take your surveillance gear with them, they'd be unlikely to expose anything meaningful (like their faces) on your video feeds anyways, right?
- dangus 3y agoWhat about cloud services that offer end to end encryption? It seems like HomeKit Secure Video has pretty good security design: https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/icloud-homekit-secure-video-mme054c72692/icloud https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/icloud-homekit-secure...
- pj_mukh 3y agoNoob question: Is it possible to stream video to a device outside your WiFi without needing a third party server in the middle? How does one do that?
- ssklash 3y agoA VPN tunnel into your home network is one way, or a VPS you control that has a similar connection into your home network is another.
- rolph 3y agoyes its possible, but a few things generate friction, major one is ISP based filtering. often you have to use port forwrding to connect, on ports not recognized for protocols your ISP filters out.
- asdff 3y agoYou can own the server yourself. Ask a buddy if you can plug in a box in their garage, now you have an off site solution.
- callalex 3y agoThere are two ways to accomplish this: poke a hole in your home firewall and expose the camera feed to the entire open internet, then attempt to add some kind of authentication system. This is very very hard to get right, don’t do it. The other option is to tunnel your internet connection on the remote device back into your home network so it looks to your remote device like it’s still at home. That’s called a VPN.
- packetlost 3y agoNeither of these options are great, IMO. I'd prefer to have a proxy that transparently forwards e2e encrypted traffic with out of band key exchange. You can blast video over a 3rd party if you trust the software on either end to not leak your encryption keys. Sadly I think few services care much about this.
- weeblewobble 3y ago
- mikecoles 3y agoFrigate, Coral TPU, and Tailscale/Headscale form a reasonable local solution for those who want to explore setting up their own system. NTFY and Node-Red, with a dash of MQTT, can be bolted on for remote alerting.
- gh02t 3y agoLots of vendors sell something like that you just need to look for an NVR. Ubiquiti, Synology, Reolink, Amcrest etc all sell products like this to varying extents, but other companies have realized you can make better money selling outrageous cloud subscriptions for subsidized hardware.
- briffle 3y agoImagine the customer support costs of trying too help users troubleshoot VPN connection issues to their phones when they don't get their alerts. And the huge mess of bad publicity, when someone breaks into a home, and as part of the theft, steals the device that has all the video of their crime.
- robertlagrant 3y agoIt would be nice to just have a data service you sign up to personally that basically just gives you an AWS bucket, and products such as this just takes a key and URL to upload/download with.
- wombat-man 3y agoYeah I would love something I update occasionally and just hook up to my aws account. probably a small market though.
- callalex 3y agoWhat a strange take. You are saying that we probably shouldn’t use the internet at all, because there is potential for something to go wrong. You probably shouldn’t live in a house either, because someone might break in. We should probably stop using bicycles or even walking because you might fall and hit your head…
- Spivak 3y agoI think the take is far far narrower than that. Although there is no practical/technological problem of hosting your security cam videos on 3rd party servers there is a legal problem which is once you do that data is no longer legally yours and can be silently used without your permission. I think the minimum requirement for a legally secure cloud hosted camera is E2EE and the camera can't upload unencrypted video at all without the decryption key from the owner.
- wombat-man 3y agoWell I mostly use my security camera to watch my cat stretch. For this, I'm pretty happy with nest cams.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y agoWell, look who's just made themselves a major target for hackers
- wombat-man 3y agothey're going to see so many cat stretches
- ndsipa_pomu 3y agoI just hope they follow the protocol of saying "big stretch" each time they see one
- adamredwoods 3y agoI'm confused. Wyze cameras offer cloud-free operation, storing to an SD card, is the vulnerability still there even without cloud hookup?
- nunez 3y agoI mean, you’re not wrong, but the family of five that just moved into $SUBURB and demands max safety for some reason is definitely not gonna do all of that and will just buy Ring or Arlo.