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> This is short-term thinking at its very worst It seems like the "short term thinking" was committing to banning diesel and petrol sales by 2030 anyway. It wa

> This is short-term thinking at its very worst It seems like the "short term thinking" was committing to banning diesel and petrol sales by 2030 anyway. It was obvious to everybody with half a brain that this was completely impossible and unrealistic. The UK doesn't have the needed infrastructure, electrical supply, or anything else to support this move. We're not going to have every lamp post in our major cities kitted out with an EV charger in 7 years, and we won't have built the additional generation capacity needed. Especially when various green lobbies are eg delaying Sizewell C with legal challenges - see the news yesterday about that. It probably is electioneering by Sunak, but it is quite a smart move. They've made labour promise to overturn it when they come to power, which would then make them extremely unpopular if they did so. Rather than trying to appease people who will only ever hate you anyway, with unrealistic targets, it is much better to be realistic about what is achievable.

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
It's entirely feasible to stop selling new ICE vehicles by 2030, though it would take some commitment and of course it was the Tories that made that commitment, so rather than being a "smart move", it instead shows that they have the robustness of wet spaghetti and will go whichever way the wind blows (or whichever way their oil investments will give them the most cash). A lot of people assume that EVs only mean car shaped objects which require heavy investment of roadside chargers as well as the various issues around pollution due to their increased weight. The smart way to improve transportation is to enhance public transport so that it's usable (i.e. not just run for profit) and to encourage as many people as possible to use active travel. There's also the lesser known EVs such as e-bikes and e-scooters which are a far better choice for city travel due to their lack of weight and reduction in road congestion. There's also the issue of increased particulate pollution from electric cars as their weight increases tyre and brake wear. But then, electric cars were invented to save the car industry, not the planet. Edit: Here's some relevant quotes regarding the 2030 target: A spokesperson for Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) said: > JLR is investing £15 billion over the next five years to electrify our luxury brands, which is key to JLR reaching net zero carbon emissions across our supply chain, products and operations by 2039. > Our plans are on track and we welcome certainty around legislation for the end of sale of petrol and diesel powered cars. A spokesperson for BMW, which owns the Mini brand, said: > Mini has already announced that it will become a purely electric brand from 2030 globally and this will not change. The former Aston Martin boss Andy Palmer told Radio 4’s World At One: > The industry is already determined that we’re going to have electric cars. > And countries like the US are protecting their industry, whereas countries like China are projecting their industry. And the real risk here is that by not having an aggressive strategy, we’re just opening the door to basically Chinese sales. Ian Plummer, commercial director at online vehicle marketplace Auto Trader, said: > Pushing back the 2030 ban on new petrol and diesel sales by five years is a hugely retrograde step which puts politics ahead of net zero goals. > This U-turn will cause a huge headache for manufacturers, who are crying out for clarity and consistency, and it is hardly going to encourage the vast majority of drivers who are yet to buy an electric car to make the switch. And Steve Gooding, director of motoring research at the charity RAC Foundation, said: > With the car industry confident about its ability to make the switch away from pure petrol and diesel engines by 2030 whilst still meeting the appetite of the UK market for new cars, it is hard to see why anyone in No 10 thinks now is a good moment to row back.
Moldoteck 3y ago
What could have been done is improving public transport aka bike paths+bus+trams+trains combo (including by decreasing funding road infra) to a point that will discourage buying new cars, in combo with rising taxes for fossil fuel&parking till 2030. This will both decrease the general demand and keep the demand for electric cars at a normal value, but apparently this is too socialist for european countries
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  > but apparently this is too socialist for european countries Whilst I agree with your general point, I have two issues with that last clause. 1) We're arguably not a European country anymore. 2) There are socialist European countries that have excellent provision for active travel and public transport.
  - Moldoteck 3y ago
    Uk is european country, just not part of the EU There are some countries with good transit, but too few and quality is not constant. Like I would put Switzerland & Netherlands at the top, and the rest(maybe except Luxembourg?) Are at a big distance. There are socialist scandinavian countries, but their transport system is far from what Sw/NL have
  - photonerd 3y ago
    Europe != EU. A few European countries NOT in the EU: - Albania. - Azerbaijan. - Georgia. - Liechtenstein. - Montenegro. - Serbia. - Turkey. … and many many more.
soco 3y ago
I'm just thinking how many times I've seen complaints that we will never reach this or that goal in such an amount of time, and how less often I actually saw policies working towards those goals. Failing green goals has become the self-fulfilling prophecy of our times.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  I think it's more a case of politicians kicking the can down the road. They get to announce a progressive green policy, do absolutely nothing about it and then complain when their successor has to actually deal with it.
matthewdgreen 3y ago
> We're not going to have every lamp post in our major cities kitted out with an EV charger in 7 years China certainly will. Running AC cables to your lamp-posts is literally the lowest-hanging fruit of the EV changeover.
pornel 3y ago
16% of new car sales are BEVs already, and this percentage has been doubling in recent years. There's million EVs on UK roads. The infrastructure has been growing quickly too, and it's becoming pretty decent (I've been road tripping across UK and Europe, from middle of nowhere in Wales to middle of nowhere in Poland. It's fine. It works.). A BEV used in a city needs to be charged about once a week. People who've never used one think cars are like cellphones.

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago

It's entirely feasible to stop selling new ICE vehicles by 2030, though it would take some commitment and of course it was the Tories that made that commitment, so rather than being a "smart move", it instead shows that they have the robustness of wet spaghetti and will go whichever way the wind blows (or whichever way their oil investments will give them the most cash). A lot of people assume that EVs only mean car shaped objects which require heavy investment of roadside chargers as well as the various issues around pollution due to their increased weight. The smart way to improve transportation is to enhance public transport so that it's usable (i.e. not just run for profit) and to encourage as many people as possible to use active travel. There's also the lesser known EVs such as e-bikes and e-scooters which are a far better choice for city travel due to their lack of weight and reduction in road congestion. There's also the issue of increased particulate pollution from electric cars as their weight increases tyre and brake wear. But then, electric cars were invented to save the car industry, not the planet. Edit: Here's some relevant quotes regarding the 2030 target: A spokesperson for Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) said: > JLR is investing £15 billion over the next five years to electrify our luxury brands, which is key to JLR reaching net zero carbon emissions across our supply chain, products and operations by 2039. > Our plans are on track and we welcome certainty around legislation for the end of sale of petrol and diesel powered cars. A spokesperson for BMW, which owns the Mini brand, said: > Mini has already announced that it will become a purely electric brand from 2030 globally and this will not change. The former Aston Martin boss Andy Palmer told Radio 4’s World At One: > The industry is already determined that we’re going to have electric cars. > And countries like the US are protecting their industry, whereas countries like China are projecting their industry. And the real risk here is that by not having an aggressive strategy, we’re just opening the door to basically Chinese sales. Ian Plummer, commercial director at online vehicle marketplace Auto Trader, said: > Pushing back the 2030 ban on new petrol and diesel sales by five years is a hugely retrograde step which puts politics ahead of net zero goals. > This U-turn will cause a huge headache for manufacturers, who are crying out for clarity and consistency, and it is hardly going to encourage the vast majority of drivers who are yet to buy an electric car to make the switch. And Steve Gooding, director of motoring research at the charity RAC Foundation, said: > With the car industry confident about its ability to make the switch away from pure petrol and diesel engines by 2030 whilst still meeting the appetite of the UK market for new cars, it is hard to see why anyone in No 10 thinks now is a good moment to row back.

Moldoteck 3y ago

What could have been done is improving public transport aka bike paths+bus+trams+trains combo (including by decreasing funding road infra) to a point that will discourage buying new cars, in combo with rising taxes for fossil fuel&parking till 2030. This will both decrease the general demand and keep the demand for electric cars at a normal value, but apparently this is too socialist for european countries

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
> but apparently this is too socialist for european countries Whilst I agree with your general point, I have two issues with that last clause. 1) We're arguably not a European country anymore. 2) There are socialist European countries that have excellent provision for active travel and public transport.
- Moldoteck 3y ago
  Uk is european country, just not part of the EU There are some countries with good transit, but too few and quality is not constant. Like I would put Switzerland & Netherlands at the top, and the rest(maybe except Luxembourg?) Are at a big distance. There are socialist scandinavian countries, but their transport system is far from what Sw/NL have
- photonerd 3y ago
  Europe != EU. A few European countries NOT in the EU: - Albania. - Azerbaijan. - Georgia. - Liechtenstein. - Montenegro. - Serbia. - Turkey. … and many many more.

soco 3y ago

I'm just thinking how many times I've seen complaints that we will never reach this or that goal in such an amount of time, and how less often I actually saw policies working towards those goals. Failing green goals has become the self-fulfilling prophecy of our times.

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
I think it's more a case of politicians kicking the can down the road. They get to announce a progressive green policy, do absolutely nothing about it and then complain when their successor has to actually deal with it.

matthewdgreen 3y ago

> We're not going to have every lamp post in our major cities kitted out with an EV charger in 7 years China certainly will. Running AC cables to your lamp-posts is literally the lowest-hanging fruit of the EV changeover.

pornel 3y ago

16% of new car sales are BEVs already, and this percentage has been doubling in recent years. There's million EVs on UK roads. The infrastructure has been growing quickly too, and it's becoming pretty decent (I've been road tripping across UK and Europe, from middle of nowhere in Wales to middle of nowhere in Poland. It's fine. It works.). A BEV used in a city needs to be charged about once a week. People who've never used one think cars are like cellphones.