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This is an especially interesting read given that Huxley described his own apparent aphantasia - lack of mental visual imagery - in "The Doors of Perception":

by driggs 3y ago

This is an especially interesting read given that Huxley described his own apparent aphantasia - lack of mental visual imagery - in "The Doors of Perception": I am and, for as long as I can remember, I have always been a poor visualizer. Words, even the pregnant words of poets, do not evoke pictures in my mind. No hypnagogic visions greet me on the verge of sleep. When I recall something, the memory does not present itself to me as a vividly seen event or object. By an effort of the will, I can evoke a not very vivid image of what happened yesterday afternoon, of how the Lungarno used to look before the bridges were destroyed, or the Bayswater Road when the only buses were green and tiny and drawn by aged horses at three and a half miles an hour. But such images have little substance and absolutely no autonomous life of their own. They stand to real, perceived objects in the same relation as Homer's ghosts stood to the men of flesh and blood, who came to visit them in the shades. Only when I have a high temperature do my mental images come to independent life. To those in whom the faculty of visualization is strong my inner world must seem curiously drab, limited, and uninteresting.

dav_Oz 3y ago
Because of the lack of inner images (I thought everyone had this) in retrospect I was particularly drawn to exploring altered states of consciousness watching my mind in awe creating the utmost realistic scenes (lucid dreaming in REM sleep) or completely lose myself in ever complex imagery even on mild doses of psychedelics. So, I slowly learned to bypass my aphantasia by entering a trance state in a similar fashion as described here but through long meditations (>30mins). Because I'm not distracted by mental images popping up, its only a function of slowly watching your thoughts pass by in complete blackness (normal for me). When talking to fellow meditators without aphantasia I feel it makes it easier for me (once I learned not to control those images) to enter those stages quicker and more reliably by taking a shortcut through the realm of visual blackness ;) Since I don't know how it is to be able to conjure up mental images at will in the ordinary state of mind I tend to be more verbose and exact in describing my experiences to others who in turn can be more easily triggered by that - I suspect through the help of their mental images now popping up. I find it fascinating that I can literally evoke elaborate pictures in most people minds by just talking to them with attention to more detail (which I can only abstractly conceptualize).
lo_zamoyski 3y ago
Mental images in everyone are hazy and fuzzy and undetermined compared to what we perceive via sense perception. I have doubts about the existence of aphantasia in the strict sense. While I can agree that different people indulge in greater or lesser day dreaming or imagination or pay greater or lesser attention to mental imagery or remember and recall images better or with greater precision than others, I don't think aphantasia as the total absence of images (where "image" is understood as a hazy sense impression) is real. I suspect that whose who claim to have this condition falsely believe that others have images that are of the same "resolution" and vividness of sense experience, but this is not the case, certainly not in most people.
- wcarss 3y ago
  That could be the case to a degree -- it's likely very hard to rule out simple miscommunication in general as a part of the equation here. But I have a friend who administered this test (to be spoken to its subject): Close your eyes. Imagine a ball resting on a table. The ball begins to roll, quicker now, and it goes over the edge of the table. It bounces, once, twice, three times, and rolls along the floor, then comes to a stop again. What color was the ball? Did you have to make that detail up just now when I asked you, or was that what you saw? This last question is the decider: a visual detail like that is very difficult to omit while _picturing_ the situation, but is very easy to leave out if your brain doesn't work that way. If you had to choose a color at the end, you may have the true "no picture at all" form of aphantasia, as opposed to just failing to understand that other people don't see a real, solid image.
  - rmwaite 3y ago
    I just tried this - even after reading your comment - and my ball was more of an empty space with no color, if that makes sense. So I can see how someone when picturing the scene can still “see” a ball and “see” it rolling, falling, and bouncing but since the prompt never asked about color they simply didn’t choose one and focused on the shape itself.
    - up_o 3y ago
aphant 3y ago
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by driggs 3y ago

dav_Oz 3y ago

Because of the lack of inner images (I thought everyone had this) in retrospect I was particularly drawn to exploring altered states of consciousness watching my mind in awe creating the utmost realistic scenes (lucid dreaming in REM sleep) or completely lose myself in ever complex imagery even on mild doses of psychedelics. So, I slowly learned to bypass my aphantasia by entering a trance state in a similar fashion as described here but through long meditations (>30mins). Because I'm not distracted by mental images popping up, its only a function of slowly watching your thoughts pass by in complete blackness (normal for me). When talking to fellow meditators without aphantasia I feel it makes it easier for me (once I learned not to control those images) to enter those stages quicker and more reliably by taking a shortcut through the realm of visual blackness ;) Since I don't know how it is to be able to conjure up mental images at will in the ordinary state of mind I tend to be more verbose and exact in describing my experiences to others who in turn can be more easily triggered by that - I suspect through the help of their mental images now popping up. I find it fascinating that I can literally evoke elaborate pictures in most people minds by just talking to them with attention to more detail (which I can only abstractly conceptualize).

lo_zamoyski 3y ago

Mental images in everyone are hazy and fuzzy and undetermined compared to what we perceive via sense perception. I have doubts about the existence of aphantasia in the strict sense. While I can agree that different people indulge in greater or lesser day dreaming or imagination or pay greater or lesser attention to mental imagery or remember and recall images better or with greater precision than others, I don't think aphantasia as the total absence of images (where "image" is understood as a hazy sense impression) is real. I suspect that whose who claim to have this condition falsely believe that others have images that are of the same "resolution" and vividness of sense experience, but this is not the case, certainly not in most people.

wcarss 3y ago
That could be the case to a degree -- it's likely very hard to rule out simple miscommunication in general as a part of the equation here. But I have a friend who administered this test (to be spoken to its subject): Close your eyes. Imagine a ball resting on a table. The ball begins to roll, quicker now, and it goes over the edge of the table. It bounces, once, twice, three times, and rolls along the floor, then comes to a stop again. What color was the ball? Did you have to make that detail up just now when I asked you, or was that what you saw? This last question is the decider: a visual detail like that is very difficult to omit while _picturing_ the situation, but is very easy to leave out if your brain doesn't work that way. If you had to choose a color at the end, you may have the true "no picture at all" form of aphantasia, as opposed to just failing to understand that other people don't see a real, solid image.
- rmwaite 3y ago
  I just tried this - even after reading your comment - and my ball was more of an empty space with no color, if that makes sense. So I can see how someone when picturing the scene can still “see” a ball and “see” it rolling, falling, and bouncing but since the prompt never asked about color they simply didn’t choose one and focused on the shape itself.
  - up_o 3y ago

aphant 3y ago

[dead]