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This, so much this. HashiCorp pricing just made it simply impossible to pay them. Their plan was to provide a free offering that was very good, get companies

This, so much this. HashiCorp pricing just made it simply impossible to pay them. Their plan was to provide a free offering that was very good, get companies hooked, and then charge our the nose for any enterprisy feature. The problem was how they charged, which they don't reveal until after you contact sales. You could build a solution using the free offering that works very well. Then years later want something paid offerings and contact sales and find out that they charge over 1000USD per clients, and you have 1000 clients. Oops, guess I'm just going to engineer my own solution for that. 1 million a year buys a lot of development and operational. It's really hard to go to management and say this open source thing we are running and serving the companies needs will now cost millions of dollars. Though I understand HashiCorp position somewhat. I'm sure their sales team has repeatedly heard that a potential client has decided they don't need the feature they called about since the free solution is good enough and can engineer around any short commons.

Terretta 3y ago
> 1 million a year buys a lot of development and operational Not all that much. At a global enterprise, for instance, that buys a couple senior systems engineers with SDLC experience after you include all the per-employee overhead that doubles their cost beyond their comp. Terraform saves the enterprise far more than that in overhead. If Terraform provides even 10% lift across 1000 seats, that's many times its cost. At a million a year, you'd need it to save you between 2 and 4 headcount to break even, not counting the compliance/audit/security benefits.
- adrianN 3y ago
  A global enterprise can pay a whole team of senior engineers in Warsaw or Cluj for a million a year.
- georgyo 3y ago
  You missed my point I think. Terraform is immensely valuable. The open source bits is 90% of that value. An enterprise will _already_ have a team managing terraform infra. Them building the parts they need from that remaining 10% may be cheaper then paying HashiCorp. This is a difficult sell. Also, a ton of Terraform's value comes from the fact that there are modules for everything. Some or developed by HashiCorp but most are developed by vendors or even users who want terraform support.
- vasco 3y ago
  You've either done a lot of tech sales yourself or bought into the kool-aid software salespeople hand out. Their bread and butter is overstating per-engineer costs and hardware ownership costs, but it doesn't mean they're right. In many places in europe you can hire a team of ~10 engineers already fully loaded for $1 million a year, or like 2 seniors and 4 midlevels or any combo like this. This is based off of 1st hand experience hiring for these salaries.
- Jka9rhnDJos 3y ago
  Yeah, but it buys 3 senior consultants, and they’re a fixed cost/capital expense and can be cut at any time. Operationally, it’s not that expensive to keep a Terraform platform floating. It’s expensive to build, and most companies need it yesterday. But bring in 3 people to support a team to build it in a year, then cut them free when it’s in v1, and leave your team to iterate and update. And now you’re not paying $1mm a year or more after that forever.
- dfinninger 3y ago
  I think the point is that those three senior engineers could figure out how to do some SAML wrapper or remote execution on top of Open-Source Terraform instead of paying for the turn-key “Enterprise” features.

Terretta 3y ago

> 1 million a year buys a lot of development and operational Not all that much. At a global enterprise, for instance, that buys a couple senior systems engineers with SDLC experience after you include all the per-employee overhead that doubles their cost beyond their comp. Terraform saves the enterprise far more than that in overhead. If Terraform provides even 10% lift across 1000 seats, that's many times its cost. At a million a year, you'd need it to save you between 2 and 4 headcount to break even, not counting the compliance/audit/security benefits.

adrianN 3y ago
A global enterprise can pay a whole team of senior engineers in Warsaw or Cluj for a million a year.
georgyo 3y ago
You missed my point I think. Terraform is immensely valuable. The open source bits is 90% of that value. An enterprise will _already_ have a team managing terraform infra. Them building the parts they need from that remaining 10% may be cheaper then paying HashiCorp. This is a difficult sell. Also, a ton of Terraform's value comes from the fact that there are modules for everything. Some or developed by HashiCorp but most are developed by vendors or even users who want terraform support.
vasco 3y ago
You've either done a lot of tech sales yourself or bought into the kool-aid software salespeople hand out. Their bread and butter is overstating per-engineer costs and hardware ownership costs, but it doesn't mean they're right. In many places in europe you can hire a team of ~10 engineers already fully loaded for $1 million a year, or like 2 seniors and 4 midlevels or any combo like this. This is based off of 1st hand experience hiring for these salaries.
Jka9rhnDJos 3y ago
Yeah, but it buys 3 senior consultants, and they’re a fixed cost/capital expense and can be cut at any time. Operationally, it’s not that expensive to keep a Terraform platform floating. It’s expensive to build, and most companies need it yesterday. But bring in 3 people to support a team to build it in a year, then cut them free when it’s in v1, and leave your team to iterate and update. And now you’re not paying $1mm a year or more after that forever.
dfinninger 3y ago
I think the point is that those three senior engineers could figure out how to do some SAML wrapper or remote execution on top of Open-Source Terraform instead of paying for the turn-key “Enterprise” features.