11 ms·

How come this is only happening in Spain?

by xchip 3y ago

entwife 3y ago
It is news in Spain because, in Spain, there is a 1000+ euro fine for transmitting intimate photos of a person (of any age) without their consent. This applies to anyone who transmits the photo, including third parties. The controversy and legal question is whether or not these photos constitute intimate photos. This probably happens elsewhere, but there is no legal mechanism to prevent it.
pvaldes 3y ago
Is a test?. The app was offered only targeting Spanish children and riding the current wave of moral panic. The more transgressive it seems, the more attractive will be seen by children craving to be targeted as "malote" by their peers. So yep. Hey boy, try this "free" app and create fake nudes of your friendenemies with the chain of selfies that they drop all the time. Lots of lols guaranteed. Soon in your own children's room with a 150% probability. This is just a preheating (IMAO).
tasubotadas 3y ago
Some teenager with right skills and intention just happened to be living in Spain. Not all of the tech world lives in the SV.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- paint 3y ago
  [dead]
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
Spain has probably the most progressive government in Europe so they'll use specter of harming women to pass more laws outlawing more software. It'll then go up to the EU so they can control us a little more. I must say the story sounds like an older scam in which you "romance" someone to get them to send you naked pictures of themselves then extort them. The AI just skips the time cost to get the material.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dangus 3y ago
  > Spain has probably the most progressive government in Europe Uh, citation needed on that one. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spains-far-right-vox-open-coalition-government-with-pp-conservatives-2023-05-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spains-far-right-vox-op... https://sensationalspain.com/is-spain-liberal/ https://sensationalspain.com/is-spain-liberal/
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
    Easy. The election in July has not resulted in a new government yet. (FYI to Americans lamenting FPTP: this is what you get with proportional representation). The previous government is now a caretaker. That government, specifically the PM, is/was in its second term. That government is a coalition of various socialist parties. Your bogeyman far-right party lost seats. Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Spanish_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Spanish_general_election and my own recollection of media coverage
    - dangus 3y ago
      It seems like you’re here to accuse me of taking sides in a culture war. I won’t engage in that. What do you think about the part of the article I posted that ranks Spain near the bottom of Europe for progressive policies? I am incredibly skeptical of the idea that Spain is one of the most progressive/liberal/left wing countries in Europe on a factual level. This is a country that is more religious than most of the rest of Western and Northern Europe.
rgmerk 3y ago
I’ll bet a substantial amount of money it’s happening elsewhere. And sooner or later I’d expect the developers of at least one of these apps to end up in serious legal trouble.
viraptor 3y ago
It's been found, talked about, and got enough notice to make news which made it to HN... from Spain. Other places are either not aware yet, or not making enough noise. The models are available everywhere - I'm sure it's happening all over the place.
- pvaldes 3y ago
  > I'm sure it's happening all over the place. Meanwhile last week in Sweden https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/11/sweden-says-back-to-basics-schooling-works-on-paper https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/11/sweden-says-ba... Probably related.
jiofj 3y ago
[flagged]
- marchenko 3y ago
  This seems like a pretty grass roots effort to me: mothers horrified that nude pictures of their 12yo daughters are being created with generative AI. These young girls (not yet women) are indeed victims, no narrative construction required, and stories like this can easily spread virally among parents, esp. mothers of girls, without any push needed. I'm not even sure tech regulation is needed or sought: a few lawsuits making this unprofitable as a mobile-first service will probably reduce the barrier-to-entry enough to protect most youngsters. Only the most motivated zoomers can use the command line. I am suspicious of the fact that this appears to stem from a free service: I assume they are collecting data, but I thought using or storing images of minors required consent from a guardian in Europe?
  - jiofj 3y ago
    The mass media (including social networks) get to pick and choose what they broadcast. No matter how hard you try or how despicable something that happened to you is, if the mass media don't want to give you coverage, no one will ever hear of you. So yes, this is getting publicity because the government wills it.
    - RoyalHenOil 3y ago
      Does Spain's government control mass media and decide which articles get published and which are quelled?
      - xchip 3y ago
        yes, it is called "institutional advertisements", this way they can poor money on your newspaper if you behave well.
- acdha 3y ago
  You might want to reconsider claiming sexual harassment as a right-wing position. It’s clear that you don’t like progressives but there’s no evidence even remotely supporting dismissal of this as propaganda, and this kind of thing will affect everyone regardless of their politics.
ethanbond 3y ago
This has been discussed on HN before and the overwhelming HN response was “why would you care, it’s not an actual nude?” Lots of tasteless people doubled down that they wouldn’t even care if it were their own children or wives (let’s be real, it’ll be 99% women and children) being portrayed like this against their consent (“consent” doesn’t exist in such a context, the argument goes). The only defense against this, which is already too late for most extant children to employ, is to never post photos of your children online. But hey whatever it takes to avoid scrutiny and regulation eh? TBC, I’m not saying it’s obvious how to regulate/control/mitigate it, but that’s a totally different argument from the one I encountered which was “there’s no relevant concept of consent.”
- prepend 3y ago
  For me, it’s not that Im tasteless, it’s that I don’t think consent is needed to make an image with my face put into a naked body. At least if it’s for personal use. In the US at least, there are laws that prevent commercialization of my likeness, or harassment, or defamation. And those can be applied if someone sells images of me on a nude bode. But for personal use, it seems as pointless to outlaw as someone imagining me naked. Is that “tasteless?” Perhaps. Of my child, that’s gross. Im not sure how to stop this though as I think any control to try to outlaw perverts from staring at people, or drawing images of people, or using these apps without consent would cause more harm than the harm they seek to prevent.
  - yladiz 3y ago
    > it’s that I don’t think consent is needed to make an image with my face put into a naked body Can you explain more of your reasoning why you don't think consent is needed here? I think the main thing here is that there is a very clear difference between mentally imagining someone nude and a fake version of their nude body being created. One is in the mind only and another actually exists.
    - sorokod 3y ago
      Not only exists, but also possibly difficult to distinguish from a non fake.
dangus 3y ago
You wouldn’t say that about a news story in the New York Times would you? This is a Spanish newspaper covering news in Spain.

How come this is only happening in Spain?

by xchip 3y ago

How come this is only happening in Spain?

It is news in Spain because, in Spain, there is a 1000+ euro fine for transmitting intimate photos of a person (of any age) without their consent. This applies to anyone who transmits the photo, including third parties. The controversy and legal question is whether or not these photos constitute intimate photos. This probably happens elsewhere, but there is no legal mechanism to prevent it.

pvaldes 3y ago

Is a test?. The app was offered only targeting Spanish children and riding the current wave of moral panic. The more transgressive it seems, the more attractive will be seen by children craving to be targeted as "malote" by their peers. So yep. Hey boy, try this "free" app and create fake nudes of your friendenemies with the chain of selfies that they drop all the time. Lots of lols guaranteed. Soon in your own children's room with a 150% probability. This is just a preheating (IMAO).

tasubotadas 3y ago

Some teenager with right skills and intention just happened to be living in Spain. Not all of the tech world lives in the SV.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
paint 3y ago
[dead]

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago

Spain has probably the most progressive government in Europe so they'll use specter of harming women to pass more laws outlawing more software. It'll then go up to the EU so they can control us a little more. I must say the story sounds like an older scam in which you "romance" someone to get them to send you naked pictures of themselves then extort them. The AI just skips the time cost to get the material.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dangus 3y ago
> Spain has probably the most progressive government in Europe Uh, citation needed on that one. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spains-far-right-vox-open-coalition-government-with-pp-conservatives-2023-05-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spains-far-right-vox-op... https://sensationalspain.com/is-spain-liberal/ https://sensationalspain.com/is-spain-liberal/
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
  Easy. The election in July has not resulted in a new government yet. (FYI to Americans lamenting FPTP: this is what you get with proportional representation). The previous government is now a caretaker. That government, specifically the PM, is/was in its second term. That government is a coalition of various socialist parties. Your bogeyman far-right party lost seats. Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Spanish_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Spanish_general_election and my own recollection of media coverage
  - dangus 3y ago
    It seems like you’re here to accuse me of taking sides in a culture war. I won’t engage in that. What do you think about the part of the article I posted that ranks Spain near the bottom of Europe for progressive policies? I am incredibly skeptical of the idea that Spain is one of the most progressive/liberal/left wing countries in Europe on a factual level. This is a country that is more religious than most of the rest of Western and Northern Europe.

rgmerk 3y ago

I’ll bet a substantial amount of money it’s happening elsewhere. And sooner or later I’d expect the developers of at least one of these apps to end up in serious legal trouble.

viraptor 3y ago

It's been found, talked about, and got enough notice to make news which made it to HN... from Spain. Other places are either not aware yet, or not making enough noise. The models are available everywhere - I'm sure it's happening all over the place.

pvaldes 3y ago
> I'm sure it's happening all over the place. Meanwhile last week in Sweden https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/11/sweden-says-back-to-basics-schooling-works-on-paper https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/11/sweden-says-ba... Probably related.

jiofj 3y ago

[flagged]

marchenko 3y ago
This seems like a pretty grass roots effort to me: mothers horrified that nude pictures of their 12yo daughters are being created with generative AI. These young girls (not yet women) are indeed victims, no narrative construction required, and stories like this can easily spread virally among parents, esp. mothers of girls, without any push needed. I'm not even sure tech regulation is needed or sought: a few lawsuits making this unprofitable as a mobile-first service will probably reduce the barrier-to-entry enough to protect most youngsters. Only the most motivated zoomers can use the command line. I am suspicious of the fact that this appears to stem from a free service: I assume they are collecting data, but I thought using or storing images of minors required consent from a guardian in Europe?
- jiofj 3y ago
  The mass media (including social networks) get to pick and choose what they broadcast. No matter how hard you try or how despicable something that happened to you is, if the mass media don't want to give you coverage, no one will ever hear of you. So yes, this is getting publicity because the government wills it.
  - RoyalHenOil 3y ago
    Does Spain's government control mass media and decide which articles get published and which are quelled?
    - xchip 3y ago
      yes, it is called "institutional advertisements", this way they can poor money on your newspaper if you behave well.
acdha 3y ago
You might want to reconsider claiming sexual harassment as a right-wing position. It’s clear that you don’t like progressives but there’s no evidence even remotely supporting dismissal of this as propaganda, and this kind of thing will affect everyone regardless of their politics.

ethanbond 3y ago

This has been discussed on HN before and the overwhelming HN response was “why would you care, it’s not an actual nude?” Lots of tasteless people doubled down that they wouldn’t even care if it were their own children or wives (let’s be real, it’ll be 99% women and children) being portrayed like this against their consent (“consent” doesn’t exist in such a context, the argument goes). The only defense against this, which is already too late for most extant children to employ, is to never post photos of your children online. But hey whatever it takes to avoid scrutiny and regulation eh? TBC, I’m not saying it’s obvious how to regulate/control/mitigate it, but that’s a totally different argument from the one I encountered which was “there’s no relevant concept of consent.”

prepend 3y ago
For me, it’s not that Im tasteless, it’s that I don’t think consent is needed to make an image with my face put into a naked body. At least if it’s for personal use. In the US at least, there are laws that prevent commercialization of my likeness, or harassment, or defamation. And those can be applied if someone sells images of me on a nude bode. But for personal use, it seems as pointless to outlaw as someone imagining me naked. Is that “tasteless?” Perhaps. Of my child, that’s gross. Im not sure how to stop this though as I think any control to try to outlaw perverts from staring at people, or drawing images of people, or using these apps without consent would cause more harm than the harm they seek to prevent.
- yladiz 3y ago
  > it’s that I don’t think consent is needed to make an image with my face put into a naked body Can you explain more of your reasoning why you don't think consent is needed here? I think the main thing here is that there is a very clear difference between mentally imagining someone nude and a fake version of their nude body being created. One is in the mind only and another actually exists.
  - sorokod 3y ago
    Not only exists, but also possibly difficult to distinguish from a non fake.

dangus 3y ago

You wouldn’t say that about a news story in the New York Times would you? This is a Spanish newspaper covering news in Spain.