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>There is nothing lax about the trade embargo. Tell that to the people who can’t get food and medicine. Cubans have all the food and medicine they need because

by 0xDEF 3y ago

>There is nothing lax about the trade embargo. Tell that to the people who can’t get food and medicine. Cubans have all the food and medicine they need because China, Europe, Canada, Mexico, and the rest of the world still trades with them. The US and Israel are the only countries that have imposed a (very lax) trade ban on Cuba.

Synaesthesia 3y ago
It's a very extreme embargo, affecting all US companies or all companies that are connected to the US which is an enormous amount of them. It's difficult for a European or foreign company to do business with Cuba because they could end up being sanctioned by the US.
- 0xDEF 3y ago
  Does that really happen? Has there been any incident of European companies being sanctioned by the US because they traded with Cuba? Here is a Danish article about more Danish and European companies operating in Cuba because they expect a Vietnam/China-like economic boom: https://politiken.dk/oekonomi/gloekonomi/art5577587/Virksomheder-vil-erobre-Cuba https://politiken.dk/oekonomi/gloekonomi/art5577587/Virksomh... Denmark is a NATO country and the US is our main export partner. We wouldn't be trading with Cuba if it put our relationship with the US at risk.
  - Maken 3y ago
    Yes, it does happen. Not long ago a Spanish company got in trouble because they operated an hotel in a building that belonged to an USA citizen before the Cuban revolution [1]. A Norwegian company was also charged for using a dock in Cuba, which again, was once American property [2]. I think this kind of thing is becoming more rare since apparently only people who was alive when the Helms-Burton nonsense was passed can litigate, but it is definitely a real danger for anybody doing business in Cuba. [1] https://www.vozpopuli.com/economia_y_finanzas/retiran-demanda-nh-hotel-group-helms-burton-cuba_0_1335466523.html https://www.vozpopuli.com/economia_y_finanzas/retiran-demand... [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-judge-orders-norwegian-cruise-line-pay-110-mln-use-cuba-port-2022-12-30/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-jud...
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    It absolutely happens. My friend's father worked for a Canadian nickel mining company that did business in Cuba, and because of this couldn't set foot in the US. Ships that dock in Cuban ports can't then go to US ports. currency exchange, bank accounts, everything is complicated. It's true the rest of the western world has basically said "f you" to the US about the trade embargo there, but it doesn't mean that it's ineffective. So much of western capitalism is built around the US financial and legal system that it has a huge impact, not to mention the consequences it can have for people traveling, etc. Perhaps the worst part about the embargo is that it gives the Cuban gov't an excuse for its mediocrity and authoritarian behaviour. Basically all internal problems get blamed on it. And it has kept the Cuban regime in a hostile place re: the US. Obama made some moves to rectify this, but Trump reversed them and then doubled back down.
    - miguelazo 3y ago
      >And it has kept the Cuban regime in a hostile place re: the US. Exactly-- these embargoes and sanctions only hurt the general population and keep the government in a siege mentality.
      - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
        In fact this may be exactly what parts of the US government want. A hostile dysfunctional authoritarian broken state claiming the mantle of "socialism" (dubious, but whatever) is a great example (along with Venezuela) to point to to say "Why Socialism Bad, See?" With the sanctions lifted one of two things would likely happen: the "communist" regime would disintegrate under competition, leaving something likely still hostile to the US but not particularly "negative exemplar"is -- like what happened in the eastern bloc -- or it would economically "reform" well enough to function/compete in the world market (like Vietnam or China) while still pretending to be "socialist." Neither of those outcomes are likely outcomes that US capital really wants. Plus at this point the Cuban economy is heavily dominated by trade competitors to the US. Spanish, Italian, French, and (to a lesser extent) Canadian companies dominate there. Its telecoms systems, electrical grid, energy, etc. are not based on US standards or tech. Non-US companies operate in places and on "property" that US capital still considers to be "theirs" from pre-revolutionary days. Imagine the legal clusterfuck when the blockade/sanctions regime falls apart, and normal trade is attempted again... In any case, the Cuban people and most normal Cuban exiles aren't doing well out of the status quo. But the Communist Party actually kinda prospers out of this arrangement, and it gives a good drum for right wing politicians in Florida to beat on. I'm sure Kissinger has some blueprint on this topic somewhere written down, and it's propagated through successive administrations with little to no modification.
delbronski 3y ago
I was born and grew up in Cuba. I immigrated to the US, but I still visit family and friends when I can. I communicate with them regularly. As someone who has first-hand experience let me tell you that Cubans do NOT have all the food and medicine they need. The situation is pretty bad. I know this because I’ve been there, in real-life, interacting with real people. I’ve gone to a Cuban grocery store with my family and seen the shelves empty. You may go as a tourist and have a very different experience, because the government has setup “tourist-only” stores and hotels with very high prices that a Cuban person would never be able to afford and in some cases not even be allowed to enter. I know this because I’ve witnessed my family and friends being denied entry into a store because they did not have a foreign passport. The Cuban government has been incredibly successful in painting this picture of Cuba as an anti-capitalist success story. I’m always surprised by the amount of people (especially Europeans) that I speak to and think Cuba is this great pristine place that capitalism never tainted. People who often flat out refuse to believe me when I tell them how bad things are, despite them not ever having set a foot on the island. I wonder where the heck they are getting all these fantasy stories from.
- miguelazo 3y ago
  Lots of people, especially Europeans, do visit Cuba. I'm sure they share their experiences with friends and family. And no, they're not just staying at resorts. Plenty stay at casas particulares with regular families. Is the situation bad? Yes, especially since Trump's maximum pressure nonsense. Is it worse than the Dominican Republic, darling of US empire in the Caribbean? Definitely not. You go to any rural area of the DR and you still find rampant illiteracy, malnutrition and even dirt floors. Those are not things you find in Cuba. There is definitely hardship, but much of that can be attributed directly to the embargo and its cumulative effects over several decades.

by 0xDEF 3y ago

Synaesthesia 3y ago

It's a very extreme embargo, affecting all US companies or all companies that are connected to the US which is an enormous amount of them. It's difficult for a European or foreign company to do business with Cuba because they could end up being sanctioned by the US.

0xDEF 3y ago
Does that really happen? Has there been any incident of European companies being sanctioned by the US because they traded with Cuba? Here is a Danish article about more Danish and European companies operating in Cuba because they expect a Vietnam/China-like economic boom: https://politiken.dk/oekonomi/gloekonomi/art5577587/Virksomheder-vil-erobre-Cuba https://politiken.dk/oekonomi/gloekonomi/art5577587/Virksomh... Denmark is a NATO country and the US is our main export partner. We wouldn't be trading with Cuba if it put our relationship with the US at risk.
- Maken 3y ago
  Yes, it does happen. Not long ago a Spanish company got in trouble because they operated an hotel in a building that belonged to an USA citizen before the Cuban revolution [1]. A Norwegian company was also charged for using a dock in Cuba, which again, was once American property [2]. I think this kind of thing is becoming more rare since apparently only people who was alive when the Helms-Burton nonsense was passed can litigate, but it is definitely a real danger for anybody doing business in Cuba. [1] https://www.vozpopuli.com/economia_y_finanzas/retiran-demanda-nh-hotel-group-helms-burton-cuba_0_1335466523.html https://www.vozpopuli.com/economia_y_finanzas/retiran-demand... [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-judge-orders-norwegian-cruise-line-pay-110-mln-use-cuba-port-2022-12-30/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-jud...
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  It absolutely happens. My friend's father worked for a Canadian nickel mining company that did business in Cuba, and because of this couldn't set foot in the US. Ships that dock in Cuban ports can't then go to US ports. currency exchange, bank accounts, everything is complicated. It's true the rest of the western world has basically said "f you" to the US about the trade embargo there, but it doesn't mean that it's ineffective. So much of western capitalism is built around the US financial and legal system that it has a huge impact, not to mention the consequences it can have for people traveling, etc. Perhaps the worst part about the embargo is that it gives the Cuban gov't an excuse for its mediocrity and authoritarian behaviour. Basically all internal problems get blamed on it. And it has kept the Cuban regime in a hostile place re: the US. Obama made some moves to rectify this, but Trump reversed them and then doubled back down.
  - miguelazo 3y ago
    >And it has kept the Cuban regime in a hostile place re: the US. Exactly-- these embargoes and sanctions only hurt the general population and keep the government in a siege mentality.
    - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
      In fact this may be exactly what parts of the US government want. A hostile dysfunctional authoritarian broken state claiming the mantle of "socialism" (dubious, but whatever) is a great example (along with Venezuela) to point to to say "Why Socialism Bad, See?" With the sanctions lifted one of two things would likely happen: the "communist" regime would disintegrate under competition, leaving something likely still hostile to the US but not particularly "negative exemplar"is -- like what happened in the eastern bloc -- or it would economically "reform" well enough to function/compete in the world market (like Vietnam or China) while still pretending to be "socialist." Neither of those outcomes are likely outcomes that US capital really wants. Plus at this point the Cuban economy is heavily dominated by trade competitors to the US. Spanish, Italian, French, and (to a lesser extent) Canadian companies dominate there. Its telecoms systems, electrical grid, energy, etc. are not based on US standards or tech. Non-US companies operate in places and on "property" that US capital still considers to be "theirs" from pre-revolutionary days. Imagine the legal clusterfuck when the blockade/sanctions regime falls apart, and normal trade is attempted again... In any case, the Cuban people and most normal Cuban exiles aren't doing well out of the status quo. But the Communist Party actually kinda prospers out of this arrangement, and it gives a good drum for right wing politicians in Florida to beat on. I'm sure Kissinger has some blueprint on this topic somewhere written down, and it's propagated through successive administrations with little to no modification.

delbronski 3y ago

I was born and grew up in Cuba. I immigrated to the US, but I still visit family and friends when I can. I communicate with them regularly. As someone who has first-hand experience let me tell you that Cubans do NOT have all the food and medicine they need. The situation is pretty bad. I know this because I’ve been there, in real-life, interacting with real people. I’ve gone to a Cuban grocery store with my family and seen the shelves empty. You may go as a tourist and have a very different experience, because the government has setup “tourist-only” stores and hotels with very high prices that a Cuban person would never be able to afford and in some cases not even be allowed to enter. I know this because I’ve witnessed my family and friends being denied entry into a store because they did not have a foreign passport. The Cuban government has been incredibly successful in painting this picture of Cuba as an anti-capitalist success story. I’m always surprised by the amount of people (especially Europeans) that I speak to and think Cuba is this great pristine place that capitalism never tainted. People who often flat out refuse to believe me when I tell them how bad things are, despite them not ever having set a foot on the island. I wonder where the heck they are getting all these fantasy stories from.

miguelazo 3y ago
Lots of people, especially Europeans, do visit Cuba. I'm sure they share their experiences with friends and family. And no, they're not just staying at resorts. Plenty stay at casas particulares with regular families. Is the situation bad? Yes, especially since Trump's maximum pressure nonsense. Is it worse than the Dominican Republic, darling of US empire in the Caribbean? Definitely not. You go to any rural area of the DR and you still find rampant illiteracy, malnutrition and even dirt floors. Those are not things you find in Cuba. There is definitely hardship, but much of that can be attributed directly to the embargo and its cumulative effects over several decades.