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Brand could argue he was discriminated as a man, in the sense that he was assumed as guilty of rape because he's a man.
by toyg 3y ago
Brand could argue he was discriminated as a man, in the sense that he was assumed as guilty of rape because he's a man.
- curiousllama 3y agoHe could argue he was discriminated against because he's actually secretly a butterfly; both arguments would hold similar weight.
- toyg 3y agoThat's sadly dismissive of an actual problem. In matters of sex crimes, men are effectively assumed guilty until proven otherwise, and even if they're eventually found innocent they get their lives destroyed. The bar is much, much higher for female rape to be considered realistic.
- curiousllama 3y agoYou are correct that is a problem; it's also rather clearly not the case here. I'd encourage you to learn the details. It is equally evil to wrongly dismiss a true accusation as it is to wrongly believe a false one. https://www.vox.com/culture/2023/9/18/23878706/russell-brand-sexual-assault-allegations https://www.vox.com/culture/2023/9/18/23878706/russell-brand...
- toyg 3y agoThe accusations might be true but it doesn't really matter until it is found as such in a court of law. Trial by media is an aberration, the modern equivalent of medieval shaming practices.
- muglug 3y agoIt very clearly does matter. OJ Simpson was not found guilty of murder in a criminal setting, yet he was still a pariah. It took years from the first public accusation for Harvey Weinstein’s case to come to trial. Was it wrong for his production company to fire him before a judge had rendered judgement?
- dijit 3y agoThats a really frustrating example because there is a lot of evidence, and over literal years- yet nobody came forward which allowed him to be a predator for decades. How can the law help if nobody is coming forward? I do not understand. Your argument about guilty until proven innocent still doesn't stand though. Johnny Depp was the quintessential counter-example of this, dropped by everyone and smeared publicly by the media; until his PR team with the help of the law cleared it up (a little too well in my opinion).
- toyg 3y ago> Was it wrong for his production company to fire him before a judge had rendered judgement? Yes. One's support for universal rights is really tested when the accused is clearly Not A Nice Person. Imagine of being accused of rape, even though you're totally innocent, and your employer (or your customers) suddenly dropping you. Would that be fair?
- muglug 3y agoNo, it wouldn't be fair. But I'm not going to get angry at something that rarely happens. Instead I'm thinking of about all the women who'd have had to work alongside Harvey Weinstein in your hypothetical, while knowing he had abused people they themselves knew. To make this personal: I discovered CSAM on my boss's laptop. I reported it to my employer and he was fired before he was found guilty. My boss worked with children almost every day. I don't want to imagine a world in which he would have been allowed to hang onto that job.
- toyg 3y agoThat's a safeguarding measure that is very specific to certain jobs. Does streaming a YT video put any woman at risk of harassment? Obviously not. Can a film producer be kept away from potential victims, with a bit of effort from the employer? Probably yes. Working yourself up in a rage is not what one should do when discussing law. Before you know it, you'll be doing things that history will probably condemn you for later on.
- tbrownaw 3y agoIt's an aberration because it's equivalent to long-standing practice?
- toyg 3y agoStoning is also a long-standing practice, is that not an aberration in terms of human rights law?
- tbrownaw 3y ago"a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome." Sure it's unwelcome, but qualifying to be an aberration requires a bit more than just that.
- suckitsam 3y agoWhat can a court tell us that a bunch of likes and shares of a Vox piece can't?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- judge2020 3y agoThe letter of the law allows anyone to be guilty of rape, in the U.S. at least (as opposed to the UK).
- dragonwriter 3y ago> The letter of the law allows anyone to be guilty of rape, in the U.S. at least That actually varies based on jurisdiction, some states have separate laws with different offense names (often with similar conditions and punishments) for different kinds of sexual assaults, and still have “rape” being specific in the same way that it is in Britain, in some states and the federal system, “rape” is not a specific offense named in statute but is sometimes used as an informal name for some offenses. (E.g., in the federal system, the title of the relevant section including, but not limited to, the common law definition of “rape” is “sexual abuse” [0], and the word “rape” does not appear anywhere in it.) [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2242 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2242
- tstrimple 3y agoAs an example, Trump was found civilly liable for Sexual Assault but could not be found liable for Rape because the jury found he only penetrated the victim with his fingers and not his penis.
- dragonwriter 3y ago> Brand could argue he was discriminated as a man, in the sense that he was assumed as guilty of rape because he’s a man. Anyone can argue anything, but Brand might have an uphill slog convincing a trier of fact that YouTube dumped him for being a man.
- hinkley 3y agoWell, specifically in this case, that he’s a promiscuous man. That part is public knowledge already.