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> based solely on accusations This is not true. The independent corroborating evidence is also material. Contemporaneous records from a rape clinic is powerful

> based solely on accusations This is not true. The independent corroborating evidence is also material. Contemporaneous records from a rape clinic is powerful evidence. More generally, innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept, not a social one. From a social perspective, that's never been the standard, nor should it be. Bad folks have often been shunned without convictions - that's why the norm has been "resign in disgrace," not "get thrown in prison"

paganel 3y ago
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xhkkffbf 3y ago
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- jamiek88 3y ago
  >If it was really bad? Well, that’s enough of this thread for me. Unfuckingbelievable.
- burkaman 3y ago
  Think about what makes this alleged crime "really bad", and then consider if that might make it difficult for a victim to come forward. There is no statute of limitations for sexual assault in the UK.
- curiousllama 3y ago
  Should have? Yes, it would have been better. Is it reasonable to expect them to do so? Maybe. Probably not pre Me-Too, and especially if they didn't know about each other. Does it change my interpretation either way? Not really. Contemporaneous records from an independent third party undercut most of my concerns. Notably, many US states don't have statutes of limitation for rape. Practical reasons can be overcome.
nvm0n2 3y ago
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nsajko 3y ago
> innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept, not a social one Yes, legalism is often taken too far, but that doesn't mean that mob rule is a good thing. > Bad folks have often been shunned without convictions Are you sure about that? I'd sooner say that only losers get "shunned". Powerful politicians don't get "shunned" for their corruption, actually sometimes it seems to help with their popularity. Likewise with mobsters? Mobs go after the weak, not after the guilty. Whether they're lynching and necklacing their neighbors or "canceling" minor celebrity cranks.
- ribosometronome 3y ago
  Your rhetoric doesn't sound far off from that of people who called BLM protests mob riots. But they were protesting against militarized police, hardly the weak. Or hell, from the other side of the political spectrum, Jan 6th was some real mob mentality behavior. But I'd hardly consider the "US government" weak.
- curiousllama 3y ago
  > Powerful politicians don't get "shunned" for their corruption Richard Nixon would like a word. As would Anthony Weiner, Roy Moore, John Edwards, and a few others. Have often != are always. I'm pointing out the long-term existence of a common second standard, not its consistent application. > Whether they're lynching and necklacing their neighbors or "canceling" minor celebrity cranks. It seems you have some big feelings you should confront, to compare YouTube demonetization to historical racial violence
  - nsajko 3y ago
    > Richard Nixon Watergate happened a long time ago, not sure how relevant it is nowadays. It seems like the standards that politicians are held to have since crumbled, IMO. Nowadays it seems to be quite difficult for a politician or party to harm the public good or democracy enough to decrease their chances of reelection. The USA seems somewhat better in this respect than the EU, though. > Anthony Weiner Is there any hint that he was actually corrupt? > Roy Moore As far as I can see Moore was actually successful despite his corruption, even though he was actually sanctioned for it. In the end his fall was only caused by moralizing allegations about how he spends his private time. > John Edwards Again, it seems like he only lost his popularity due to his immoral actions as a family man, not as an official. > compare YouTube demonetization to historical racial violence Various kind of (physical, murderous) mob violence still happen regularly around the world. Some necklacing videos are available on the Web.

paganel 3y ago

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xhkkffbf 3y ago

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jamiek88 3y ago
>If it was really bad? Well, that’s enough of this thread for me. Unfuckingbelievable.
burkaman 3y ago
Think about what makes this alleged crime "really bad", and then consider if that might make it difficult for a victim to come forward. There is no statute of limitations for sexual assault in the UK.
curiousllama 3y ago
Should have? Yes, it would have been better. Is it reasonable to expect them to do so? Maybe. Probably not pre Me-Too, and especially if they didn't know about each other. Does it change my interpretation either way? Not really. Contemporaneous records from an independent third party undercut most of my concerns. Notably, many US states don't have statutes of limitation for rape. Practical reasons can be overcome.

nvm0n2 3y ago

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nsajko 3y ago

> innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept, not a social one Yes, legalism is often taken too far, but that doesn't mean that mob rule is a good thing. > Bad folks have often been shunned without convictions Are you sure about that? I'd sooner say that only losers get "shunned". Powerful politicians don't get "shunned" for their corruption, actually sometimes it seems to help with their popularity. Likewise with mobsters? Mobs go after the weak, not after the guilty. Whether they're lynching and necklacing their neighbors or "canceling" minor celebrity cranks.

ribosometronome 3y ago
Your rhetoric doesn't sound far off from that of people who called BLM protests mob riots. But they were protesting against militarized police, hardly the weak. Or hell, from the other side of the political spectrum, Jan 6th was some real mob mentality behavior. But I'd hardly consider the "US government" weak.
curiousllama 3y ago
> Powerful politicians don't get "shunned" for their corruption Richard Nixon would like a word. As would Anthony Weiner, Roy Moore, John Edwards, and a few others. Have often != are always. I'm pointing out the long-term existence of a common second standard, not its consistent application. > Whether they're lynching and necklacing their neighbors or "canceling" minor celebrity cranks. It seems you have some big feelings you should confront, to compare YouTube demonetization to historical racial violence
- nsajko 3y ago
  > Richard Nixon Watergate happened a long time ago, not sure how relevant it is nowadays. It seems like the standards that politicians are held to have since crumbled, IMO. Nowadays it seems to be quite difficult for a politician or party to harm the public good or democracy enough to decrease their chances of reelection. The USA seems somewhat better in this respect than the EU, though. > Anthony Weiner Is there any hint that he was actually corrupt? > Roy Moore As far as I can see Moore was actually successful despite his corruption, even though he was actually sanctioned for it. In the end his fall was only caused by moralizing allegations about how he spends his private time. > John Edwards Again, it seems like he only lost his popularity due to his immoral actions as a family man, not as an official. > compare YouTube demonetization to historical racial violence Various kind of (physical, murderous) mob violence still happen regularly around the world. Some necklacing videos are available on the Web.